AirTran MEC Chair message.

[Lear70]

OK, lets stop the ball busting and feather ruffling.

SWA pilots have the training to do near international today, they finish off all international training by COB Aug 2013, so all AT international could be done by any SWA pilot as of end of Aug 2013.

Aha, give that man a cigar. Well-played, sir.

Was wondering when someone was going to figure that out (or already had and was going to post it here).

There's not a flipping thing that says they can't be differences-trained in our 737's (dual autopilot), or dumb it down to not use it and be signed off for those hull numbers by the FAA, and they're flying them instead of us on 1/1/15.

No, I'm not talking furlough (our no-furlough clause is perfectly intact, and wouldn't hold up to that kind of a move and flush to furlough), but if they hit 1/1/15, SWAPA won't budge on the Scope, and Southwest decides not to push the loophole they created, they could simply pull the last of our pilots who are flying the 737's on 1/1/15 and send them home on guarantee for several months until they could get the last of them through.

The airplanes don't lose a dime of revenue, they keep right on flying until they go to paint, but with Southwest pilots up front, put a big ONE LUV sticker on the side of the plane and say "Operated by Southwest Airlines", it's on their master approved aircraft list in their Ops Specs, done deal.

I'm betting that's the fall-back position. Make no mistake, they could barrel right through your scope clause, but if management can't get SWAPA to give further relief but yet don't want to push a more militant solution and fall back to something like this, as long as it doesn't compromise and downgrade every last AAI Captain by doing it BEFORE 12/31/14, then I still hold out hopes for the culture for the future at Southwest, a decade or so after the dust settles from all this.

 

[U2DRVR]

You forget the company still has to recurrent train the existing pilots, as well as run nearly 3 times their peak of 2006 through full initial training.

The numbers I listed come from Southwest management regarding capacity to do recurrent training and train AirTran pilots coming over. 72 a month, that's the max THEY say they can handle; it's not a random number I pulled out of my F/O hat that collects dust on my office shelf.

Not sure where you get the "3 times their peak of 2006". If there remains 1600 AT folks to train, and the company want to comply with SL10 and get it all done by 1/1/2015, and they don't do much more this year, that leaves 2 full years (2013 & 2014) to train 1600. I'm no math major (physics for me) but that appears to be 800 per year. That works out to 67 per month, which is less than what THEY said they can handle. I imagine the number THEY (whoever it is you talked to that may or may not have the big long term picture) gave you is based on current staffing, resources and scheduling assumptions...all of which are subject to change.

SWA management never lies, but they do choose their words VERY carefully and leave their options open. You guys have been burned twice now by making assumptions about what management would do. You should pay very close attention to the specific words and phrases they use and assume that they are planning at least 5 steps ahead of what you are thinking. Don't assume that they can't find some way to make things happen the way they want...they almost always do!

 

[Britpilot]

OK, lets stop the ball busting and feather ruffling.

SWA pilots have the training to do near international today, they finish off all international training by COB Aug 2013, so all AT international could be done by any SWA pilot as of end of Aug 2013.

Yup, that is true and that is why we will see furloughs on the AAI side.
They can't train all of us and they won't need all of us. Furlough will fix the problem.

 

[texman]

You probably wouldn't have known as it is strictly an AAI thing. This is not a shot but is seems that many RSW pilots don't have a clue about our side of the partition. I probably wouldn't either if I was on the LUV side.

Ahhhhhh, you might have a point. So all in all the SWA side is not so much in the dark but the info is, the 717 gone means RSW pilots get the capt seats, but their are 30 plus 717's that might be on the AT side after 2015.

I get it. So now you deal with who goes where and when. I want to say that know one will be out of a job.

From what we know is the 717's will be replaced with 737's and we will have the same fleet size. Flat.

Global MSL will rule after 2015. It is our SL 8 and SL 10 that will benefit RSW.

Hey I'm at the bottom so what do I know.

 

[scoreboardII]

Yup, that is true and that is why we will see furloughs on the AAI side.
They can't train all of us and they won't need all of us. Furlough will fix the problem.

I disagree, as much as you dislike the SLI outcome, GK did try to make the deal as friendly to you all as possible (keep all captain seats as an example).

Labor harmony and every pilot having a vote being number two example of GK making sure pilots had a say.

So then add "No furloughs" retorted by GK and others numerous times and you will have no furloughs. You may fly min guarantee, or sit and not fly banking min guarantee, but there will be no furloughs.

Why?

Because WE are watching, and if he goes back on his word to you, he is toast. He is already on less than thin ice on our side. One hiccup and our goodwill is forever gone.

 

[texman]

Oh just out of the school house we will have late sim periods when this all goes down. If this helps.

 

[scoreboardII]

Oh yeah, I bet the PM guys get tubed with the 1201AM box time.

Thanks Gary!

 

[waveflyer]

I don't mind the midnight sim, done that a few times- esp coming from Vegas, that's a lot better than the 5am brief

 

[humveedriver]

Oh yeah, I bet the PM guys get tubed with the 1201AM box time.

Thanks Gary!

Good practice for the red eye flying coming to a SWA schedule near you! Just got in from one. It's not too bad really. Well, except after lunch I can't keep my eyes open..

 

[Lear70]

Good practice for the red eye flying coming to a SWA schedule near you! Just got in from one. It's not too bad really. Well, except after lunch I can't keep my eyes open..

I'm amazed you get that far.

I get the nods right about the final hour descending into ATL or MKE, every, single time.

 

[humveedriver]

I'm amazed you get that far.

I get the nods right about the final hour descending into ATL or MKE, every, single time.

Two words.. Red bull.

 

[Britpilot]

I disagree, as much as you dislike the SLI outcome, GK did try to make the deal as friendly to you all as possible (keep all captain seats as an example).

Labor harmony and every pilot having a vote being number two example of GK making sure pilots had a say.

So then add "No furloughs" retorted by GK and others numerous times and you will have no furloughs. You may fly min guarantee, or sit and not fly banking min guarantee, but there will be no furloughs.

Why?

Because WE are watching, and if he goes back on his word to you, he is toast. He is already on less than thin ice on our side. One hiccup and our goodwill is forever gone.

Glad you think that way.
However, no one has promised no furloughs on the AAI side, just that furloughs will try to be avoided. All furloughs will be on the AAI side until 2015.
I wish I could share your confidence.

 

[Tripower455]

Oh yeah, I bet the PM guys get tubed with the 1201AM box time.

Thanks Gary!

No, we'll still get the 0530, like we do now.

 

[Cometman]

Glad you think that way.
However, no one has promised no furloughs on the AAI side, just that furloughs will try to be avoided. All furloughs will be on the AAI side until 2015.
I wish I could share your confidence.

OK, we all understand how you feel. Now quit whining. You are starting to sound like a spoiled child.

 

[PCL_128]

You know, for someone who claims not to work for Southwest, you sure spend an awful lot of time posting on SWA threads and worrying about what ATN pilots think about SWA issues.

 

[Britpilot]

OK, we all understand how you feel. Now quit whining. You are starting to sound like a spoiled child.

If it offends you so much quit reading the thread d1ckhead .

 

[maxblast72]

That is why we will see furloughs on the AAI side.

Current delivery schedule has 119 brand new Boeing 737s coming from Seattle from 2012 to 2015. Current retirement plans have approximately 130-150 aircraft leaving over the same time period (88 B717s and 40-60 Classics). There will be also be 400-500 medical, early, and mandatory pilot retirements over the same time period.

With Jet A prices dropping well below $3/gallon over the last few months and revenue numbers holding up so far (last month's RASM was up 5% if I recall correctly), SWA must be generating some pretty large profits from May on. If the current fuel/economic trends hold, the next capacity move will a modest increase in capacity not decrease (current plan is to hold capacity flat). I just don't see the math that indicates SWA will furlough on either side of the partition anytime soon.

 

[Britpilot]

The problem lies with training not airframe deliveries.

 

[Flyer1015]

The problem lies with training not airframe deliveries.

What training? Aren't they going to force the Airtran 717 pilots to buy their own 737 types? I believe they get 6 months to do it...

 

[Britpilot]

Very good almost funny.

 

[fletch717]

What training? Aren't they going to force the Airtran 717 pilots to buy their own 737 types? I believe they get 6 months to pay for it

No, but I got a one luv lanyard and an ugly flag tie and it only cost my seniority, my seat, my base, and a twenty dollar an hour pay cut. So I got that going for me....... Which is nice.

 

[Flyer1015]

No, but I got a one luv lanyard and an ugly flag tie and it only cost my seniority, my seat, my base, and a twenty dollar an hour pay cut. So I got that going for me....... Which is nice.

LOL!



Yikes

 

[scoreboardII]

No, we'll still get the 0530, like we do now.

Well played sir.

 

[madjack]

Bitchin all the way to the bank, u guys will fit right in

 

[fletch717]

Bitchin all the way to the bank, u guys will fit right in

I know I should bow down and kiss the feet of a company that will allow me to pull gear for the next 7 years until I reupgrade and hold a base 1500 miles from where I live, yeah I'm sooo lucky.

 

[Flyer1015]

Why? Is ATL not going to be announced as a base at SWA soon?

 

[fletch717]

Why? Is ATL not going to be announced as a base at SWA soon?

Thanks to my new seniority I won't hold it as capt in 3 to 5 years when I reupgrade. Oak or Las for me on reserve in 3 to 5 years, maybe.

 

[FlyinGuy]

No, but I got a one luv lanyard and an ugly flag tie and it only cost my seniority, my seat, my base, and a twenty dollar an hour pay cut. So I got that going for me....... Which is nice.

Actually, you are a little off. What cost you those things was YOU. That's right YOU. You entered this business just like the rest of us. You decided to work for a small airline out of ATL. You were the one that put all your chips on the table and made your bet on AT. Guess what. It did not work out like you planned. I am not making this a knock on you, but on all of us. This is the airline business. Some will get their dream job and make a ton of money then retire....Most of us will have a few more bumps along the way. In the end, YOU make your best decisions for you and your family. Sometimes it works out great and sometimes not so great. The key is to live within your means and take what comes with the best possible attitude. No that is not always easy, but it will give you the best results for YOU and your family......

 

[SWA/FO]

No, but I got a one luv lanyard and an ugly flag tie and it only cost my seniority, my seat, my base, and a twenty dollar an hour pay cut. So I got that going for me....... Which is nice.

gonna wave the BS flag. sorry

 

[scoreboardII]

on the lanyard or flag tie?