Airtran hiring updates

[Lear70]

Does anybody have any insight what the 737/717 mix will be? Just wondering how long I can expect to be on reserve in the 737.

That depends on a LOT of factors...

Next class is 09/20 or 09/30, depending on who you talk to. ATL isn't going to be growing, it's going to actually be LOSING block hours from what I've been told, at least through the Fall, which is normal for this time of year anyway. More hours will be ramping up in MCO and MKE, which is why the vacancies for those cities (especially MCO) are coming out.

One factor is how many people bid those vacancies. If the ATL pilots decide to stay put until they know what the flying will look like in MCO, then new-hires will be going to MCO which seems to be equally split between the 737 and 717.

However, we're seeing at least a few pilots bid over to the 737 in the same seat, so there *may* be more of a 60/40 split of 717/737 (more 717 slots than 737's).

Honestly, it's so dynamic, that until you're sitting in class and the equipment drop is handed down, it's impossible to know.

As far as Scope goes, we've been hearing for a while that MKE doesn't support the 717 on many routes. Yes, 86 seaters are part of the new agreement. I don't like that part of it, but we bound the holding company; it is what it is.

Depending on fleet plans, it might not slow AirTran's deliveries at all. If we get an Agreement ratified and the lenders start liking us a bit better, our delivery schedule should stay intact. It *appears* as if we're shifting towards more near-international ops (Mexico, Caribbean, etc) which will require 737's.

As long as we keep growing "mainline" at the already-announced rate or faster and career tracks aren't impacted, then no harm no foul. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen... My crystal ball is a bit cloudy these days.

 

[Max Powers]

And who is giving up the scope again? Not regional pilots!!! When will major pilots learn to say NO.

However, the fact that it takes 1.5+ 76 seaters to generate the revenue of a 717 will offset the pilot cost difference somewhat.

To simplistic in your thinking guys....The 76 seaters are like crack to Airline CEOs because they push up the seats costs when they go from 117 to 76 - its a supply and demand thing. They can also offer service into places a bigger airplane can't effectively serve.

 

[General Lee]

So can someone please explain what the Airtran guys are giving up again? What is this about 86 or 76 seaters? How many? Who will fly them? Thank you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Crash Pad]

86 seaters not flown by Airtran pilots. Way to think it through. General how many jobs did Delta cough up on that one?

 

[Lear70]

So can someone please explain what the Airtran guys are giving up again? What is this about 86 or 76 seaters? How many? Who will fly them? Thank you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Right now, under existing Scope, AirTran can fly just about as many 50 seaters as they want, and around 40 70-seaters, based on current ASM's. The proposed Scope allows that same number of 50- and 70- seaters, and ALSO allows the company to farm out up to 15 86-seaters initially, with 5 more potentially, based on growth and ASM's for a max of 20. If AirTran isn't growing, they can't add more RJ's.

So, new Scope = 20 86-seaters, 40 70-seaters, total of 60 outsourced hulls (assuming we don't use any 50-seaters which, for the most part, are money-losers). We don't know WHO will fly them or even IF there's a CONCRETE plan for them; all we know is that they can outsource them, but haven't as of yet beyond the CURRENT SkyWest deal.

What we got back for that was Merger and Fragmentation language, Successorship language, and we bound the holding company (no alter-ego Pinnacle-Mesaba-Colgan-esque whipsawing).

The $60 Million Dollar question is: which aircraft are they going to use for growth? 737? 717? or RJ?

It will be a while before the fallout from this is fully known... As long as we keep "mainline" growing, thing will be fine. But if mainline growth stops and suddenly 15-20 86-seat RJ's start popping up around the system... You're going to have a lot of very angry AAI pilots whose upgrade gets put on long-term hold or who sit on reserve an extra year or two or three...?

For the time being, with a new contract likely requiring more staffing for better trip and duty rigs plus the new flight & duty rest provisions coming into effect next year plus our forecast growth, I don't see anything slowing down for a while. In the future? Well, my crystal ball has been a little glitchy for a while now.

 

[Murphy]

It will be a while before the fallout from this is fully known... As long as we keep "mainline" growing, thing will be fine. But if mainline growth stops and suddenly 15-20 86-seat RJ's start popping up around the system... You're going to have a lot of very angry AAI pilots whose upgrade gets put on long-term hold or who sit on reserve an extra year or two or three...?

Don't even know where to begin on this subject.

When the union leadership and the most militant members of the pilot group seem to say they're aren't happy with 86 seat language but it is what it is and we got the holding company bound, GOD help us all on the rest of a Tentative Agreement.

Impasse (noun):
A position or situation from which there is no escape; deadlock.

Example

A point in labor negotiations at which reaching an agreement is impossible because neither party is willing to compromise or change position.

With a 98% strike vote, the negotiating team needs to get this word in their vocabularly.


You're membership said through their vote that they were willing to take this to the mat with management, the leadership and negotiating committee need to start acting like it.

Don't bring us a TA that is only marginally better than TA 2 and the membership is shaking their heads wondering why a TA was voted down, two union leaderships were blown up, ALPA was brought on property, and management has run roughshod over the current CBA for the past 5 years.

 

[General Lee]

Right now, under existing Scope, AirTran can fly just about as many 50 seaters as they want, and around 40 70-seaters, based on current ASM's. The proposed Scope allows that same number of 50- and 70- seaters, and ALSO allows the company to farm out up to 15 86-seaters initially, with 5 more potentially, based on growth and ASM's for a max of 20. If AirTran isn't growing, they can't add more RJ's.

So, new Scope = 20 86-seaters, 40 70-seaters, total of 60 outsourced hulls (assuming we don't use any 50-seaters which, for the most part, are money-losers). We don't know WHO will fly them or even IF there's a CONCRETE plan for them; all we know is that they can outsource them, but haven't as of yet beyond the CURRENT SkyWest deal.

What we got back for that was Merger and Fragmentation language, Successorship language, and we bound the holding company (no alter-ego Pinnacle-Mesaba-Colgan-esque whipsawing).

The $60 Million Dollar question is: which aircraft are they going to use for growth? 737? 717? or RJ?

It will be a while before the fallout from this is fully known... As long as we keep "mainline" growing, thing will be fine. But if mainline growth stops and suddenly 15-20 86-seat RJ's start popping up around the system... You're going to have a lot of very angry AAI pilots whose upgrade gets put on long-term hold or who sit on reserve an extra year or two or three...?

For the time being, with a new contract likely requiring more staffing for better trip and duty rigs plus the new flight & duty rest provisions coming into effect next year plus our forecast growth, I don't see anything slowing down for a while. In the future? Well, my crystal ball has been a little glitchy for a while now.

Thank you very much for the response. We all know that RJs, especially bigger ones, often help park smaller mainline planes (we have seen a lot of that), and I hope that doesn't occur too much to you guys. You are right, it will be interesting to see which fleet gets future growth. Hopefully it is your mainline. Take care.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[maxblast72]

Thank you very much for the response. We all know that RJs, especially bigger ones, often help park smaller mainline planes (we have seen a lot of that), and I hope that doesn't occur too much to you guys. You are right, it will be interesting to see which fleet gets future growth. Hopefully it is your mainline. Take care.


Bye Bye--General Lee

The TA'd section prohibits any agreements with any other carriers to cause the furlough of any Airtran pilot. The million dollar question is how well we could enforce that and can the company find ways to sneak around the language. I feel better with ALPA written language than NPA written language.

To be more specific on the TA language, 20% of Airtran's ASMs could be flown by partners (no change from current contract). The difference is, up to 15 86 seaters could be utilized and an additional 86 seater allowed for every 3 mainline aircraft up to a cap of 20 86 seaters. At Airtran's current size, 20 86 seater would produce around 10% of our ASMs which would still allow 10% of our ASMs to be flown by any combination of aircraft with 70 seats or less.

Another question is how CASM effective would CRJ-900s be in Airtran's network where the average ticket price is around $100. AirTran has proven the 717 and 737 can make money at those price levels, not sure if large RJs could. Would Skywest even want to do a revenue sharing deal with Airtran if there were fixed fee per departure contracts to be made with United or Delta?

As of right now, we have 2 leased 717s scheduled to come online in February 2011, 4 737 deliveries between March and December 2011, and another 6 737 deliveries scheduled for 2012. Back in June, Airtran renegotiated our deliveries with Boeing pushing 9 deliveries from 2011-2014 to 2015-2017. The above mentioned delivery schedule includes the effects of the recent deferrals.

The TA'd scope section was unanimously approved by our 4 elected status (LEC) reps and I believe all 3 MEC officers. There are some strong voices against the TA'd but I can't tell if they are the minority or majority. That is what makes the voting process interesting.

 

[Crash Pad]

Would Skywest want to do the flying. I hope you aren't serious. Yes they want to do the United, continental, Delta, and now Airtran flying. Diversifies the portfolio. Who knows they will have to battle it out with the other outsourced flyers of the world.

The contract they TA will pass. The group being vocal about scope are in the minority. Most people I fly with say things like "so a regional would really go out and buy twenty jets to do the flying?"... "we can't stop the company from making money and if an 86 seat jet works they should be able to do it"... "maybe I'm naive but I don't think 20 jets is a big deal"

Those statements indicate that people hired ten years ago don't have a clue what is going on. So of course the negotiating group agreed. Maybe they got a five dollar pay raise to boot.

I blame ALPA national. Why didn't they sit down with the MEC and explain to them how important this is? Why is ALPA always giving away scope? Seriously 86 seats is an E190 with first class or a CR9 with first. I'm not saying Airtran shouldn't have these planes... I'm saying we should fly them.

Leave it to ALPA to sell the junior guys down the river. It worked so well for them at Delta. Enjoy reserve and being an FO... Hey captains look real close at that reserve language. Once they reduce MKE by 20 jets you too might be on reserve.

 

[Murphy]

I blame ALPA national. Why didn't they sit down with the MEC and explain to them how important this is? Why is ALPA always giving away scope? Seriously 86 seats is an E190 with first class or a CR9 with first. I'm not saying Airtran shouldn't have these planes... I'm saying we should fly them.

Leave it to ALPA to sell the junior guys down the river. It worked so well for them at Delta. Enjoy reserve and being an FO... Hey captains look real close at that reserve language. Once they reduce MKE by 20 jets you too might be on reserve.

Does Mother ALPA really care where their dues money comes from?

RJ pilots get bigger jets and get a negotatiated pay raise, ALPA National gets more money.

Majors relax scope, regionals hire more pilots and send the money to National.

Majors get a pay raise at the expense of selling out on scope, dues money goes up even though they scoped out their flying to the regionals.

It's hypocrisy to think Mama ALPA can represent regional, legacy, and major airline pilots on the scope issue. Congrats to creating a two-tiered pilot system over the years and letting each individual pilot group sell their futre growth and seniority down the river at the legacy carriers.

Does anyone have the address for the esteemed scope expert, Mike Abrams, I want to send him an early Rosh Hashanah card for reviewing Section I.