Airtran has reached a tentative agreement!!

[ivauir]

Yeah, I know. I've been trying to back off the posting of my personal opinions on the SLI issues because, in part, of my Moderator status.


I'm not on here all day. There might be several opinions both directions posted before I get online to say something (I do fly a full schedule). Sorry if it appeared that I was only responding when something was posted I didn't agree with, just happened to be the timing.

Thanks for addressing the issue, I understand. I don't want to be confrontational, honestly, I just want to welcome you guys to the family.

Good luck with the TA, whichever way you hope it goes ...

I do hope you realize how good our contract is, and not just the compensation ... more days off on reserve, no standups, no domestic codeshare, premium reroute pay ... it just goes on and on.

It's right around the corner, we're ready for ya'll! Let's kick some double breasted butt!

 

[ivauir]

Didn't say it took a while to convert the document, I said emailing a document of that size to 1,800 or so pilots would be a lot for the server when, in all likelihood, only about 1/3 of those pilots will download the whole thing and only about half of those will read more than Section 4, 7, and maybe a little bit of Section 5..

I'm kinda surprised that section 1 isn't a bigger deal to ya'll. I know you have RJ codeshare, are you happy with the limits?

 

[Kharma Police]

Just read the TA summary...... SPIRIT+1, BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lear70]

I'm kinda surprised that section 1 isn't a bigger deal to ya'll. I know you have RJ codeshare, are you happy with the limits?

No. It's been a source of great contention on our internal message board when it was released a couple months ago.

Thanks for addressing the issue, I understand. I don't want to be confrontational, honestly, I just want to welcome you guys to the family.

Good luck with the TA, whichever way you hope it goes ...

I do hope you realize how good our contract is, and not just the compensation ... more days off on reserve, no standups, no domestic codeshare, premium reroute pay ... it just goes on and on.

It's right around the corner, we're ready for ya'll! Let's kick some double breasted butt!

I'm definitely all for that! There's a few things in our contract that I hope we keep but, overall, I definitely do like the vast majority of your contract... good stuff.

So what's your overall preliminary take on it Lear?

I'm not crazy about it, to be honest. They took some of the pay geared towards the CA and gave it to the F/O's, so now the CA's don't even get COLA raises. I'm really unhappy with Section 1 (the Scope issues), although Section 5 appears, on the surface, to be a vast improvement (haven't gotten into the language yet, will probably wait until my trip on Monday and grab a hard copy so I can start analyzing in depth).

I still won't be voting yes simply because we have a contract hostage out and I think that's unacceptable. I understand the legal implications of why, but if the company were to settle his OSHA case (either by reinstatement or by monetary settlement), I'd probably vote yes.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be happy when the Southwest deal is finalized, as I didn't get into this career to do union work; I got into this career to fly, have a good time, and go home, so I'm looking forward to just flying the line without worrying about a contract, but the harsh reality is: we're not going to get another bite at the apple this time around. Between the NMB and Southwest, the fight is pretty much gone out of this pilot group as far as a contract, and everyone is pretty much saying they want a little coin, a little quality of life improvement until Southwest happens, then get a fair deal with the SLI and move on.

So yes, I'm thinking it will pass.

 

[328dude]

Especially bullet point 3 in Section 1

 

[Lear70]

Section 4: Compensation

Captains

Years 12/1/10 12/1/11 12/1/12 12/1/13 12/1/14

1 $106.36 $107.47 $109.47 $127.68 $130.08
2 $122.86 $123.98 $126.30 $138.15 $140.75
3 $127.51 $128.64 $131.06 $141.20 $143.87
4 $130.09 $131.23 $133.69 $144.35 $147.07
5 $134.49 $135.64 $138.19 $147.55 $150.34
6 $136.33 $137.49 $140.08 $150.91 $153.77
7 $138.31 $139.49 $142.11 $154.37 $157.29
8 $149.01 $150.89 $153.74 $158.13 $161.12
9 $153.03 $154.21 $157.13 $162.17 $165.24
10 $155.06 $158.19 $161.18 $166.93 $170.10
11 $156.17 $161.32 $164.37 $170.63 $173.86
12 $161.72 $165.02 $168.16 $174.97 $178.29
13 $162.22 $166.91 $170.08 $177.46 $180.82
14 $162.72 $168.82 $172.03 $180.03 $183.45
15 $163.22 $170.77 $174.02 $182.68 $186.32

First Officers

Years 12/1/10 12/1/11 12/1/12 12/1/13 12/1/14

1 $42.75 $42.75 $43.13 $43.56 $44.00
2 $67.07 $70.07 $71.41 $77.67 $80.44
3 $76.29 $79.59 $81.09 $83.44 $85.01
4 $86.03 $86.59 $88.23 $90.90 $92.61
5 $91.01 $92.57 $94.32 $97.30 $99.15
6 $92.50 $95.21 $97.01 $101.38 $103.30
7 $93.22 $97.24 $99.08 $104.56 $106.54
8 $95.08 $99.19 $101.06 $107.15 $109.18
9 $96.55 $100.71 $102.61 $109.87 $111.95
10 $98.75 $102.97 $104.92 $113.15 $115.29
11 $99.50 $103.73 $105.69 $113.93 $116.08
12 $100.78 $105.03 $107.01 $115.28 $117.46

 

[canyonblue]

.......... rates within 5 years that match current SWA rates in both seats as a "just in case" the SWA deal falls through.....

Not sure how you "figured" our current rates, but our 12 year rates do not "match" your TA'd rates. You may have forgot our TFP conversion.

AAI F/O $117.46 AAI CA $186.32

SWA F/O $148.38 SWA CA $211.98

 

[BlueBlood]

Congrats!

 

[MINIME]

Those aren't even Jetblue rates, let alone Alaska. But I understand the NMB and SWA factor. Those two must have played a huge role in the outcome. Otherwise, I fully expected AirTran to walk in circles at some point.

Caution though, SWA/AAI is still just a hypothetical preposition. Without having/understanding the strategic data behind this potential deal, some would love to see it die. As evidenced by some reactions on this forum. This fact is worth noting because SWA marches to a different tune when it comes to its employees. SWA actually considers its employees' concerns most times. Remains to be seen just how bad Mr. Kelly thinks he needs this deal for long term viability. Without triggers in this supposed contract, AAI pilots should hope that he feels it's essential.

With elections around the corner; unemployment numbers being high, and SWA appearing in the picture; I can not see how AirTran was going to get a release if needed. SWA literally saved the NMB from having to let another group strike. A group that deserved it if they wanted it, and the NMB knew it. That's a political fact, and I challenge anyone to show me evidence stating otherwise.

The NMB may not even have to deal with CAL anymore. As I'm sure that would have been a tough battle. More than likely, CAL/UAL will come to an agreement without their influence. Thank goodness. They have pretty much parked AMR. So in essence, they're off the hook. Now that's politics and a RLA that works for the people isn't it?

To surmise, SWA did not help or enable AAI achieve a good contract. Due in large part to the hypothetical deal, SWA helped AAI achieve A CONTRACT. And without backing from the NMB, not much can be done to better the outcome. The NMB in my opinion, still remains the real culprit for the results being presented today. Same as the role they played in the downward spiral of our compensation, retirement, and QOL for the last few years. Certainly, not all of it is attributed to the NMB. But when you have to go through them to make a stance, they do make up a big piece of the puzzle.

 

[Cruncher]

What's section 1 look like? A million $$ per second means nothing if your work is farmed out.

How about rigs?

No flame, just interested.

 

[AFcitrus]

I think as good things MAY get down the road IF the SWA deal goes through, I think most of us feel on Sept 27th we had our legs cut out from under us. We spent 6 years building unity and with the aid of a 98% strike vote of 97% of the pilots we were poised with massive leverage over the company. When the SW deal was announced the NMB was bailed out of having to release us and in my opinion we probably lost $50 million of leverage that day.

Who knows if this will pass or not. Initially I felt it was a no brainer to pass but there seems to be more and more utter shock and disappointment by the pilots I talk to. I think it will go down to the wire. I personally will be taking a pay cut (if COLA is accounted for) and I've been a Captain for more than 5 years!

 

[27 driver]

Make no mistake about it this TA is a slightly polished turd. IMHO we had no leverage after the LUV announcement. Now we get this TA that gives the FO's the appropriate percentage of the Captain's pay and the super senior guys are saying they are getting pitched under the bus. They are all over our in-house forum pissing and moaning. The same ones that crafted the POS TA we live with right now. The same TA that F&^%ed every FO since the 2001 TA was ratified. The same people that have been paid commensurate with their peers all the while the FO's have lived on food stamp wages. A bit hypocritical I think. You all can vote no on your "principles" but your principles don't pay my bills. Your principles don't give me extra days at home with my family. Flame on Bitches

 

[Murphy]

I would have hoped that after 5+ years of negotiating, a TA would have been reached that ALL STATUS REPS would have wholeheartedly agreed that the pilot group should RATIFY it.

DIDN'T HAPPEN.

Played by MANAGEMENT, played by the NMB, and once again the UNION (ALPA, NPA) doing their best CHARLIE BROWN AND LUCY football routine.

Management playing with all the answers, the Union...not so much.

 

[RedDogC130]

Latest rumor I read was Delta wants the 717 for swap with Deltas 737s... anyone hearing anything like this....so that would not be a 50% takeover...,hmmmm

 

[Max Powers]

Latest rumor I read was Delta wants the 717 for swap with Deltas 737s... anyone hearing anything like this....so that would not be a 50% takeover...,hmmmm

Actually it would be a more than 50 percent take over....Before they can trade these 717s they would have to own them. Right??? Man how did you pass the interview process? In any event Delta has almost all -800 and they would be the chumps of the month to give those to the competition. Also the 717 are either owned or leased for pennys on the dollar why get rid of them. Just wait till the leases are up in 2017 then they will really be cheap as they aren't operated by but a handful of operators.