AirTran Furloughs coming

[27 driver]

I think we would be fools if we didn't plan for another round of furloughs at AAI. The first 180 only save roughly $10 mil a year. A $1 increase in the barrel of oil eats that up. A drop in the bucket. They will probalby keep us on property long enough to scare us into a yes vote then drop the hammer. Who knows, maybe not even that long. I will go in the first round but would like to come back to more then $39 an hour. I sincerely hope the old don't eat their young like most pilot groups have done in the past. I wasn't around after 9/11 but I hear that the group was pretty tight then. I won't sit here and tell people how to vote but do ask that they consider the long term consequences of concessions. Most people I have talked to know that concessions won't keep us junior guys on property. I just hope the furlough won't be forever.

Future Furloughee
near future that is

 

[Kharma Police]

Well, I hope you don't get furloughed. Any opportunity to further your career is a good move, but the way you guys are being treated combined with the stability at ASA made Kharma's comment seem a bit confusing.

Stability is very important in rough times. The guys that want to make a career at a regional, like Joe, have that stability for now. The rest of us are about to face the same crap that is happening at Air Tran, United, Frontier, Spirit, CAL, American, US Airways...who did I miss? NWA/Dal have bought some time. We may be lucky and avoid a big mess, but we'll still have, at the very least, a mess to clean up.

You think ASA is stable?!? ASA has never been stable because its destiny has always been controlled by other companies (Delta, SkyWest). What do you think they are going to do with the pilots when Delta parks the 50 seaters? What's going to happen after the merger when there are too many regional in the Delta Connection "portfolio".

I enjoyed my fellow workers at ASA and I wish them all well, but I can still say that, after my worst day at AirTran, I can still take comfort that I'm not at ASA.

 

[Lear70]

There's a big difference between Pinnacle and ASA. Also, although you have been furloughed in the past, from your post you are no longer at Air Tran and not in danger at the bottom of their list. Your comments are easy to say if you are not at risk. Why did you leave Air Tran?

Furloughed twice in the past.

Terminated pending grievance at AirTran for helping kill T.A. 2. The company has been using every legal tactic (and a few illegal ones) to keep me and some other people from getting to arbitration in a timely manner.

The cases are VERY weak, and they know it. The longer they keep us out, the more it is a threat to pilots in the future who stand up and stick their necks out... unless... everyone bands together.

If they thought terminating me would shut me up, boy did they go barking up the wrong tree. Being treated wrongly only makes me want to fight harder. Would rather die on my feet than serve on my knees...

 

[MJ42]

You think ASA is stable?!? ASA has never been stable because its destiny has always been controlled by other companies (Delta, SkyWest). What do you think they are going to do with the pilots when Delta parks the 50 seaters? What's going to happen after the merger when there are too many regional in the Delta Connection "portfolio".

I enjoyed my fellow workers at ASA and I wish them all well, but I can still say that, after my worst day at AirTran, I can still take comfort that I'm not at ASA.

I said...stable for now! I also said an opportunity to further your career(by going to Air Tran) is a good decision, but presently, you guys are being treated like crap while life at ASA(for now) is not too bad. I'm not saying you should prefer ASA over AAI, just being at the bottom at AAI (and any airline) really sucks when cuts come!

A few other reasons I responded...although it seems to be avoided, the hint of FIRING probationary pilots is BS. Also, disregarding your contract by not getting rid of instructors first is wrong.

I hope all turns out well for everyone who has to go through this pain

 

[MJ42]

Furloughed twice in the past.

Terminated pending grievance at AirTran for helping kill T.A. 2. The company has been using every legal tactic (and a few illegal ones) to keep me and some other people from getting to arbitration in a timely manner.

The cases are VERY weak, and they know it. The longer they keep us out, the more it is a threat to pilots in the future who stand up and stick their necks out... unless... everyone bands together.

If they thought terminating me would shut me up, boy did they go barking up the wrong tree. Being treated wrongly only makes me want to fight harder. Would rather die on my feet than serve on my knees...

Just another example of scumbag management tactics that seem to be the industry norm. Hope it turns out in your favor.

 

[eatme]

Furloughed twice in the past.

Terminated pending grievance at AirTran for helping kill T.A. 2. The company has been using every legal tactic (and a few illegal ones) to keep me and some other people from getting to arbitration in a timely manner.

The cases are VERY weak, and they know it. The longer they keep us out, the more it is a threat to pilots in the future who stand up and stick their necks out... unless... everyone bands together.

If they thought terminating me would shut me up, boy did they go barking up the wrong tree. Being treated wrongly only makes me want to fight harder. Would rather die on my feet than serve on my knees...

Where any of your postings here at Flightinfo used against you in the case of your termination?

 

[Lear70]

Where any of your postings here at Flightinfo used against you in the case of your termination?

No, there wasn't anything to use. I posted during that time fame, even posted when the doctors said I was close to going back to work about how I was looking forward to getting back.

They did, however, use one of my postings after I won my first court case in my termination System Board hearing. Didn't really have any bearing; it was about my first case in Court, but they brought it up anyway...?

 

[rhino3040]

I think we would be fools if we didn't plan for another round of furloughs at AAI. The first 180 only save roughly $10 mil a year. A $1 increase in the barrel of oil eats that up. A drop in the bucket. They will probalby keep us on property long enough to scare us into a yes vote then drop the hammer. Who knows, maybe not even that long. I will go in the first round but would like to come back to more then $39 an hour. I sincerely hope the old don't eat their young like most pilot groups have done in the past. I wasn't around after 9/11 but I hear that the group was pretty tight then. I won't sit here and tell people how to vote but do ask that they consider the long term consequences of concessions. Most people I have talked to know that concessions won't keep us junior guys on property. I just hope the furlough won't be forever.

Future Furloughee
near future that is

Hey man cheers to yah....with that 180 that will go down along with the other third of this industry. Ive decided to go pick my unemployment check sit on that for awhile and start planning on doing something else. I have worked to hard to get where I am today, to watch all of this...........maybe just giving up. I just dont know anymore.

 

[gt1900]

Lear... You can bash all you want but what you explained is what I'm talking about. The problem is that our union never makes anything black and white. TA2 was filled with so many grey areas its not even funny.. BTW.. I'm not afraid for my job. As of right now, I'm not close to being furloughed, but I may be in the future. Luckily, I could sit on my arse for the next two years and watch football and drink beer on unemployment and still be fine. What AAI did to you is B.S. But that kind of stuff happens all the time in business unfortunatly. The funny thing about all this b.s. is that I hear lots of guys bitching about how bad everything is. Yet, I come to work every day, do my job, keep my mouth shut and don't get screwed with. Ive yet to see all these things that everyone complains about. Maybe thats the reason for the rumors about F.P. wanting to fire 35 of the biggest trouble makers. If the company laid out a plan like you explained, I can almost guarantee you that pay cuts would get voted in.... Sorry, but its true..

 

[jhill]

Go back and re-read what I said....Concessions are not the "way out of this mess". The only way out of this mess is to get oil prices down...

The concessions will be used to extend the life of an airline with a terminal disease for a month or two in hopes that oil comes down. It is simply a way to preserve cash to last a little longer....If oil doesn't come down we ALL be out of work soon....

Because of the seniority system, at least 50% will probably reluctantly support trying to "extend the runway" a little longer in hopes that the oil bubble pops....

If you want carriers to stop taking concessions you need to start working on transportability of seniority/longevity....

I've got an idea. How about doing away with seniority all together and make it performance based like other jobs. You know, the better you are the more you get paid. This way we could be recruited by the best companies and take the job we want. If they go broke you fill out that resume with your experience, exemplary work record and job performance, you know sim grades, check ride results, attendance ect. Then it would really be a fair system and only the strongest survive. Longevity could still be used for schedules but pay and position should be merit based.

How many of you would be willing to try that?

 

[JoeMerchant]

I've got an idea. How about doing away with seniority all together and make it performance based like other jobs. You know, the better you are the more you get paid. This way we could be recruited by the best companies and take the job we want. If they go broke you fill out that resume with your experience, exemplary work record and job performance, you know sim grades, check ride results, attendance ect. Then it would really be a fair system and only the strongest survive. Longevity could still be used for schedules but pay and position should be merit based.

How many of you would be willing to try that?

Believe it or not, I think that would work better than the current system.....People would start to bail out companies that slash pay.....It's the "starting over" that kills our leverage...That's how most corporate jobs are and many folks leave the union airline jobs for corporate jobs.....

 

[Lear70]

Believe it or not, I think that would work better than the current system.....People would start to bail out companies that slash pay.....It's the "starting over" that kills our leverage...That's how most corporate jobs are and many folks leave the union airline jobs for corporate jobs.....

Yeah, because you know airline management just LOVES to reward pilot merit with additional pay, stock options, and an Aston Martin in your driveway one afternoon after your 3rd attempt jumpseat home got you back at 0130 in the morning...

You'd have to negotiate it into a contract for airline management to ever honor it... oh wait... we do that already.

 

[PinnacleDude]

I've got an idea. How about doing away with seniority all together and make it performance based like other jobs. You know, the better you are the more you get paid. This way we could be recruited by the best companies and take the job we want. If they go broke you fill out that resume with your experience, exemplary work record and job performance, you know sim grades, check ride results, attendance ect. Then it would really be a fair system and only the strongest survive. Longevity could still be used for schedules but pay and position should be merit based.

How many of you would be willing to try that?

Did you think before you posted this?

 

[PinnacleDude]

Believe it or not, I think that would work better than the current system.....People would start to bail out companies that slash pay.....It's the "starting over" that kills our leverage...That's how most corporate jobs are and many folks leave the union airline jobs for corporate jobs.....

Joe,

It's time for you to leave the AirTran guys alone. They are going to be fine on their own. Step away from the computer or go hassle the ALPA guys some more.

P. Dude

P.S. I am open to setting up a cage match between Joe and 128. One night only. Winner takes all.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yeah, because you know airline management just LOVES to reward pilot merit with additional pay, stock options, and an Aston Martin in your driveway one afternoon after your 3rd attempt jumpseat home got you back at 0130 in the morning...

You'd have to negotiate it into a contract for airline management to ever honor it... oh wait... we do that already.

Airline management doesn't want to reward us with anything....But leverage allows one to dictate the pay and working conditions....The unions aren't having much luck with that because of the seniority system and the inability to transfer said seniority...

There are 2 solutions....

1. Come up with a union solution that allows us to transport seniority

or

2. Do away with seniority and allow the market to rule.....A senior United pilot might leave United if Delta would hire him at his current status...

Either way, we need the same leverage as management....They don't worry about transferring to another company....neither should we...

Time to think outside the box...

 

[Colonel Savage]

Did you think before you posted this?

Are we supposed to think before we post? No one told me that.

Buzz killer...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Did you think before you posted this?

Actually I believe he did think....the status quo people aren't thinking....they're just pounding their chests and making noise....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe,

It's time for you to leave the AirTran guys alone. They are going to be fine on their own. Step away from the computer or go hassle the ALPA guys some more.

Actually I don't think they are going to be "fine".....It's a shame....

P.S. I am open to setting up a cage match between Joe and 128. One night only. Winner takes all.

How about a debate....Loser buys a round for the audience.....

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I don't care who the leadership is. No pay cuts!!! FOs can't afford to pay the bills, gt, yet you think we should consider additional paycuts if the "right" leadership asks for them? Sorry, it's not worth it to us. We're looking at 8+ year upgrades now. On these FO rates, that's not livable.

Dude,
You paid 20K to swing gear, ask your parents for another check, they have lots, don't they?
PBR

 

[DonVerita]

AAI is at a disadvantage to the legacy's because AAI doesn't have any international ops, which actually make money. quote]

Bingo! We could have started international ops years ago.

Every recurrent ground school I've been in (where somebody from management actually shows up), the question is always asked, "When are we going to start serious international ops?" Then the excuses start. Now the chickens are coming home to roost. This was a management decision not to start these ops and therefore a management blunder. Yet we the employees are asked to cover it. F-that!