AirTran Furloughs coming

[Colonel Savage]

Did you think before you posted this?

Are we supposed to think before we post? No one told me that.

Buzz killer...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Did you think before you posted this?

Actually I believe he did think....the status quo people aren't thinking....they're just pounding their chests and making noise....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe,

It's time for you to leave the AirTran guys alone. They are going to be fine on their own. Step away from the computer or go hassle the ALPA guys some more.

Actually I don't think they are going to be "fine".....It's a shame....

P.S. I am open to setting up a cage match between Joe and 128. One night only. Winner takes all.

How about a debate....Loser buys a round for the audience.....

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I don't care who the leadership is. No pay cuts!!! FOs can't afford to pay the bills, gt, yet you think we should consider additional paycuts if the "right" leadership asks for them? Sorry, it's not worth it to us. We're looking at 8+ year upgrades now. On these FO rates, that's not livable.

Dude,
You paid 20K to swing gear, ask your parents for another check, they have lots, don't they?
PBR

 

[DonVerita]

AAI is at a disadvantage to the legacy's because AAI doesn't have any international ops, which actually make money. quote]

Bingo! We could have started international ops years ago.

Every recurrent ground school I've been in (where somebody from management actually shows up), the question is always asked, "When are we going to start serious international ops?" Then the excuses start. Now the chickens are coming home to roost. This was a management decision not to start these ops and therefore a management blunder. Yet we the employees are asked to cover it. F-that!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

P.S. I am open to setting up a cage match between Joe and 128. One night only. Winner takes all.

Great visual,
An old guy who looks like Homer Simpsons father and a pizza faced booger eater who looks like Stork(from Animal House). Almost lost my lunch/dinner, gonna go drop a deuce instead!
PBR

 

[PCL_128]

I've got an idea. How about doing away with seniority all together and make it performance based like other jobs. You know, the better you are the more you get paid. This way we could be recruited by the best companies and take the job we want. If they go broke you fill out that resume with your experience, exemplary work record and job performance, you know sim grades, check ride results, attendance ect. Then it would really be a fair system and only the strongest survive. Longevity could still be used for schedules but pay and position should be merit based.

How many of you would be willing to try that?

I'd rather have my gonads cut off with a pocket knife. No thanks.

 

[Nindiri]

"You're a good employee, FO Smith, but you just missed the cut again, and we awarded the upgrade to the Chief Pilot's brother-in-law. Keep working extra hard, though, and maybe next time..."

 

[SkiFishFly]

I call bullsh*t.


Name me ONE time that has worked at AirTran. Just one.

If the management team was different and pilots could reasonably assume that management WOULD do the right thing, then sure, work together. Unfortunately here, management takes, then takes some more, then beats some more out of the pilots and takes that, too. Just look at the last year of contract reinterpretations, givebacks Philpot made in the interest of "working together" that we got NOTHING for, then they took even more in reinterpretations.

Without HARD SNAPBACK PROVISIONS built into any agreement AND concessions in ALL area of management compensation (base salary, bonuses, stock plans, ALL of it), any agreement should die. Hard. Noisily. Painfully.



The ONLY way the pilots at AirTran should even ENTERTAIN cuts is if management does the following 7 things IMMEDIATELY:

1. Rescind ALL policies that reinterpret existing contractual language to the pilot's detriment and settle all outstanding grievances on these reinterpretations. They want good will? They NEED concessions? Then THEY show good will FIRST by fixing their mess.

2. Fix SAP. Period. They screwed SAP up over a year ago. The time has long-since passed to fix it. Again, they want good will, THEY give good will FIRST.

3. Fix Scheduling. It doesn't work. For either party. Big screw-ups EVERY DAY in staffing because of the way scheduling works.

4. Management takes cuts similar to what you said above. First thing I agree with you on here. Their cuts must come from ALL parts of their compensation package. Their base compensation is only 20% of their total income - they take a 15% cut ACROSS THE BOARD as a show of LEADERSHIP.

5. Bring back the terminated pilots. ANY side deal negotiated in the last 20 years of airline history ALWAYS brings back hostages. Period.

6. Concessionary period has a HARD TIME LIMIT. They want 6 months, we give them 6 months. Period. They want more after that, they can come back and negotiate it again.

7. Any agreement has a snap-back provision that INCLUDES increases to COLA over 2005 pay rates. The first time the company posts a TOTAL yearly profit, our wages increase 3% per year from 2005, cumulatively. If it's 2010 when we next show a profit for the F.Y. 2009, then the wages come up 16% (cumulative 3% per year) from 2005 wages. This happens without ANY extra negotiations.

Without these provisions in place, you're just giving your position away to management and making it THAT much harder to negotiate in the future, as you give them a LOWER starting point than we already have. This has all happened before, why are we not learning from other airline's mistakes?


GOOD!

Now think of the above before you give them concessions without getting ANYTHING in return. All of the above are zero-cost items to the company except 7 and that only happens when the company is profitable again.

ALL AirTran pilots should HOLD THE LINE until an agreement that recognizes the sacrifices of the pilots is hammered out. If the company needs it bad enough, they'll deal. If they don't deal, then they really don't need it that bad.




The company comes up with a working business plan, fixes the worst of the grievances outstanding and fixes the basic Quality Of Life issues for the pilot group that are zero-cost items NOW, gives time limits and snap-back provisions on concessions, and THEN,,, MAYBE,,, after calm deliberation and, FOR THE FIRST TIME, working TOGETHER with the pilot group, they get their cuts to help everyone through tough times.


Until they show they can manage revenue, they can't show us a "reasonable" business plan.

I think I am going to email this to MB. This is what the NPA response to the company should look like. Make the snap back provisions based on operating profit. Total profit would allow them to avoid snap back by using write offs (management bonuses, etc) to make total profit negative.

 

[PCL_128]

"You're a good employee, FO Smith, but you just missed the cut again, and we awarded the upgrade to the Chief Pilot's brother-in-law. Keep working extra hard, though, and maybe next time..."

Looks like somebody understands the "merit" system.

 

[CitationLover]

if they change to a merit system, then the uniform will have to change. knee pads will be added to the slacks for all the ones who suddenly find themselves on their knees when mgmt asks for "favors".

how can a merit system work in an environment where your job is simply to move from point a to point b safely? this happens at every airline on 99.9999% of the flights.

 

[spitfire1500]

I've got an idea. How about doing away with seniority all together and make it performance based like other jobs. You know, the better you are the more you get paid. This way we could be recruited by the best companies and take the job we want. If they go broke you fill out that resume with your experience, exemplary work record and job performance, you know sim grades, check ride results, attendance ect. Then it would really be a fair system and only the strongest survive. Longevity could still be used for schedules but pay and position should be merit based.

How many of you would be willing to try that?

It's a fairy tale....or should I say nightmare, it would turn into a big poularity contest and if pay was performance based the guys with the lowest sim grades would get hired since they would cost the least for the airline.
This industry blows as far as upturns and downturns and anyone who doesn't have a backup career is just a fool. After the fuel crisis ends (which I think will end with a few carriers liquidating and those surviving being able to adjust fares accordingly to pay for fuel). what will be next....another period of hiring with an improving economy, followed by the economy taking another dump and furloughs of the last hired..the cycle has been the same since it all started.
Worst case scenario and what worries me the most...getting to a ripe age of say 57 to 60 not having enough put away to retire and your carrier shuts down...where do you go from there.

 

[rajflyboy]

$49 dollar fairs are not going to get it done with 130 dollar a barrel oil.

For any airline except maybe SWA to operate in this environment they must Raise rates this year. Period.

The public is still using the airlines in large numbers. Load factors are still good. Flying today is cheaper than it was in the 1970's.

Its time for management to raise fairs. Many other industries are passing the costs down to the consumers. The airlines must do the same.

In this difficult time the airlines need to work together. Too many company's are working against each other right now. They need to have a "Coming Together" party and agree to raise rates across the board. The fair wars needs to be a thing of the past. Lets work together and get it done.

The only bump in the roads to raising rates is SWA. They are obviously positioned much better than the rest. They have great fuel hedges and plenty of cash on hand. (This is another reason why ALL the other airlines must work together) The fight should be against SWA.

Teamwork is key right now.

 

[MJ42]

$49 dollar fairs are not going to get it done with 130 dollar a barrel oil.

For any airline except maybe SWA to operate in this environment they must Raise rates this year. Period.

The public is still using the airlines in large numbers. Load factors are still good. Flying today is cheaper than it was in the 1970's.

Its time for management to raise fairs. Many other industries are passing the costs down to the consumers. The airlines must do the same.

In this difficult time the airlines need to work together. Too many company's are working against each other right now. They need to have a "Coming Together" party and agree to raise rates across the board. The fair wars needs to be a thing of the past. Lets work together and get it done.

The only bump in the roads to raising rates is SWA. They are obviously positioned much better than the rest. They have great fuel hedges and plenty of cash on hand. (This is another reason why ALL the other airlines must work together) The fight should be against SWA.

Teamwork is key right now.

That seems to be a FARE assessment!

 

[rajflyboy]

haha

good one MJ

Fare's! or Fairs! Need raised!