Airtran contract

[maxblast72]

I was reading the letter from Jeff Miller again and started wondering. When he said that we had very profitable years up until 2007, why did we not share in that profitability? Why were we not able to get a new contract? I know the answers, I just thought it was funny that now they want to tie our future to profitability but when we were profitable, they told us to pound sand.

No concessions. Stand together or fall alone.

I think we should have a base pay scale and then profit sharing like Southwest and Continental. Profit sharing ties everyone's overall compensation to the overall health of the company.

Although we were profitable for 8 straight years, only 2003 was a really good year. And we are forecast to lose in 2008 almost as much as we made during the previous 6 years. Here are the numbers from airtran.com investor relations page:

2002 $0.14 eps
2003 $0.74 eps
2004 $0.12 eps
2005 $0.03 eps
2006 $0.14 eps
2007 $0.58 eps
2008 $-1.37 eps (projected)

The good news today is that Raymond James upped their guidance on us and based on $92/barrel oil, project our 4th quarter loss to only be $0.08/share down from $0.31/share.

I agree no concessions, but the majority of our pay raises (after COLA) should be tied to profitability just like Bob's bonuses.

 

[PCL_128]

No thanks, not interested. My pay shouldn't be tied to management's competence or lack thereof.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I agree, no way. Can I go to the grocery store and tell them I want to pay 5% less because my company does not have a clue how to hedge fuel or price their product?

 

[sweptback]

Eastern tried the profit sharing route back in the day. Their pay could range from 97% to 103% of their base salary depending on the profit margin.

Guess what, they never saw anything other than 97% of the pay. But they sure had a lot of shiny new tugs and spare parts out the wazoo sitting in a warehouse. This was during a time of profitability during their South American expansion, not exactly the lean years.

If you give management an inch, they'll take a mile...

 

[SkiFishFly]

The only tie-in to "profits" I would even consider would be a tie-in to management bonuses. If they get a bonus - we get paid more. If we don't get an increase in pay - they do not get any bonus.

 

[Lear70]

The only tie-in to "profits" I would even consider would be a tie-in to management bonuses. If they get a bonus - we get paid more. If we don't get an increase in pay - they do not get any bonus.

I like the way you think.

 

[maxblast72]

Just listened to Arne Haak's presentation at Calyon Securites conference. Things don't sound as bad as Jeff Miller's letter made them out to be. Amazing.

Sounds like management feels pretty comfortable going forward with the changes they have made to the business plan. They feel pretty good about RASM growth for the Sep-Dec period due to the capacity reductions. Next years ASM will be down 3-7% when compared to 2008. Atlanta will be down to 225 departure a day (from a high of 265 this summer) while they increase point to point flying into Florida. They feel Florida should do well as the alot of the other carriers domestic reductions will be in Florida markets.

 

[carl p]

You guys are joking right. You have turned down three T/As have been operating without a contract for a few years now. You are taking a conscession every day that you do not have a contract. Think you are going to get retro. lol. Have you guys even taken a strike vote yet? Didnt think so. You can even take care of simple grievences. Your union is very weak and very underfunded. NPA has to go. You guys dont even have a real long term disability. No real loss of license. Nothing. NPA does not protect its members. The membership is at the mercy and intimidation of management and training department. You will never get a good contract with NPA. Nor will you ever have a real potential for a strike. What are you paying your union dues for? Somone here please answer that question for me. My brother was recently furloughed at Airtran and I real hate to see the anguish he is going through. I understand that the union could have not prevented a furlough. However I stop and think about when he finally gets recalled. To what. An airline that has no union with a company that plays hardball with its employees on a daily basis. Your union should be able to go head to head with Kloski and his like. Problem is that NPA has no backbone and no funding. If your going to pay union dues pay it to a union that will make a diffrence.

BINGO!!!!!!!

 

[71driver]

You guys are joking right. You have turned down three T/As have been operating without a contract for a few years now. You are taking a conscession every day that you do not have a contract. Think you are going to get retro. lol. Have you guys even taken a strike vote yet? Didnt think so. You can even take care of simple grievences. Your union is very weak and very underfunded. NPA has to go. You guys dont even have a real long term disability. No real loss of license. Nothing. NPA does not protect its members. The membership is at the mercy and intimidation of management and training department. You will never get a good contract with NPA. Nor will you ever have a real potential for a strike. What are you paying your union dues for? Somone here please answer that question for me. My brother was recently furloughed at Airtran and I real hate to see the anguish he is going through. I understand that the union could have not prevented a furlough. However I stop and think about when he finally gets recalled. To what. An airline that has no union with a company that plays hardball with its employees on a daily basis. Your union should be able to go head to head with Kloski and his like. Problem is that NPA has no backbone and no funding. If your going to pay union dues pay it to a union that will make a diffrence.

you are correct sir, I have lost my job before because of ALPA, but if ALPA went up for a vote I would vote yes!! Most of us have lost faith in the NPA......MB is running out of time

 

[CoolSidePillow]

In my honest and often deranged state of mind and opinion I agree that the NPA has problems. I am sure it is underfunded as well, however, the biggest problem I think it has is identity. Who is the NPA? Well, that asks the question of who are the Airtran pilots? Is it cohesive? Does it have true unity? Unfortunately, I have heard and seen many who are out for themselves and that approach is in direct contrast with the very meaning of unity. That last TSA should have failed in a landslide but it did not. Any vote has to be good for the group for only in that thinking can individuals truly prosper. If a good many only think about themselves they are in fact hurting themselves in the long run. I have seen the inner workings of the Teamsters and I have worked in the trade unions in N.Y. They had true labor power. Unfortunately, people in this country can be greedy and I think it hurt the unions overall. The government stepped in and really de-fanged the power of unions. They do not now and probably will never have the power they once did. The fact still remains that ANY union is only as strong as its weakest link and without true unity it is a union in name only. ALPA would not do much better. Is there a fairly treated pilot group out there. It is an association with an agenda. They have done great things for the pilot profession, however, they have had major failings as well. An individual that works in upper mangement has a few goals and none of them have anything to do with making a company good at what it does or making the labor group happy. They are there to make the balance sheets work so that they and the majority stock holders make money. If it was up to them they would take ever last cent and keep it for themselves whether the company was losing money or making it hand over fist. If Airtran made a billion dollars in profit this year they would still try to take whatever they could from the pilots regardless of what union was the representation. Airtran mangement knows that there is a crack in the unity and they are going to try to exploit that crack every single change they get. They do not fear the pilot group and they have to. The pilots do not want anything that would hurt the company because we all want to keep working here but we want what is fair and we certainly do not want less. To the last man we need to show them that and then we have a chance.