Airtran contract

[PCL_128]

ALPA would not do much better.

I beg to differ. But in any case, they certainly couldn't do any worse. That much is certain. And with the dues rate being lower, you even get to save a few bucks while you get increased services and access to insurance programs and many other resources. You have nothing to lose by giving ALPA a shot.

 

[CoolSidePillow]

I beg to differ. But in any case, they certainly couldn't do any worse. That much is certain. And with the dues rate being lower, you even get to save a few bucks while you get increased services and access to insurance programs and many other resources. You have nothing to lose by giving ALPA a shot.

But changing unions without changing mindset and unity is like working out but eating junk food everyday. Not worth the effort.

 

[PCL_128]

But changing unions without changing mindset and unity is like working out but eating junk food everyday. Not worth the effort.

Part of our problem is having no real organization. Notice that you didn't get a full rebuttal from the NPA about that ridiculous letter that the company sent out? ALPA's attorneys, financial analysts, and Comm Dept. would have helped put out a rebuttal letter within 24 hours. I know, because that's what we did several times at PCL with ALPA's help.

Changing to a real national pilots union will help us change our pilot group's mindset. We'll never get anywhere as an isolationist group.

 

[easydoesit]

Seriously, we have been talking about ALPA now at AirTran for awhile. How do we get the ball rolling if it is not already.

 

[BigMeat]

In my honest and often deranged state of mind and opinion I agree that the NPA has problems. I am sure it is underfunded as well, however, the biggest problem I think it has is identity. Who is the NPA? Well, that asks the question of who are the Airtran pilots? Is it cohesive? Does it have true unity? Unfortunately, I have heard and seen many who are out for themselves and that approach is in direct contrast with the very meaning of unity. That last TSA should have failed in a landslide but it did not. Any vote has to be good for the group for only in that thinking can individuals truly prosper. If a good many only think about themselves they are in fact hurting themselves in the long run. I have seen the inner workings of the Teamsters and I have worked in the trade unions in N.Y. They had true labor power. Unfortunately, people in this country can be greedy and I think it hurt the unions overall. The government stepped in and really de-fanged the power of unions. They do not now and probably will never have the power they once did. The fact still remains that ANY union is only as strong as its weakest link and without true unity it is a union in name only. ALPA would not do much better. Is there a fairly treated pilot group out there. It is an association with an agenda. They have done great things for the pilot profession, however, they have had major failings as well. An individual that works in upper mangement has a few goals and none of them have anything to do with making a company good at what it does or making the labor group happy. They are there to make the balance sheets work so that they and the majority stock holders make money. If it was up to them they would take ever last cent and keep it for themselves whether the company was losing money or making it hand over fist. If Airtran made a billion dollars in profit this year they would still try to take whatever they could from the pilots regardless of what union was the representation. Airtran mangement knows that there is a crack in the unity and they are going to try to exploit that crack every single change they get. They do not fear the pilot group and they have to. The pilots do not want anything that would hurt the company because we all want to keep working here but we want what is fair and we certainly do not want less. To the last man we need to show them that and then we have a chance.

Well look at it this way. At least with ALPA if you get Diabetes or lose an eye you still dont have to work as a Walmart greeter for the rest of your life. I as an ALPA member am covered till Im 65. You unless fully disabled by a mack truck are not. If I am going to pay union dues I want the best bang for my buck. ALPA perfect? no the hell way! Better than NPA by a country mile though. If you were ALPA and you took a strike vote. ALPA national would give you millions to fight. NPA? No im not exagerrating. You woud have money and attorneys to actually fight your grievences. Look at Spirit. They are locked and loaded. They are smaller than Airtran. If Airtran had Spirits resources it would boggle my mind. I truly believe that the majority of Airtran pilots are militant enough. They just need direction and some tools to do the job. If your going to pay union dues anyways buy something nice!

 

[zman]

I agree if you look at Loss of Medical insurance options for Airtran Airways pilots, all you get is Mutual Aid. Now what most NPA BOD members dont want to tell you, and they got pissed off when I asked. When you setup something like a Aid account, you do NOT need to by law, maintain a certain amount of money within that account. I have already flown with people who have been denied the amount they were suppose to get in Mutual Aid because there was not enough money. Now you take Alpa's loss of Medical Insurance nothing in this industry comes close to it. The only thing that you can get is an insurance company called Harvey W. Watt ( 800) 241-6103, and the max that you can get is (max 5000 a month) 4 years of payments as well as a lump sump buyout of 250,000! Sounds nice right?? But if you look at the cost you will see that someone in their 30's-40's will spend roughly 3500-4500 dollars a year for this insurance. As well as you have to wait a 12 month grace period to even start collecting. Please call the phone number and ask them how come they dont offer the same type of loss of medical insurance policy as well as an almost immediate payout as Alpa and she will tell you they simply cant. This insurance should be reason enough why Airtran should vote in Alpa. I am really amazed when I see so many people bash Alpa and support NPA. As if NPA has anything or given the pilot group anything except for unprofessionalism. Its hard enough to get in touch with anybody in that union let alone a simple explanation about something. Also one more thing for those in Alpa, they can even opt for more loss of Medical if you want and the expense is not as near what Harvey W Watt would be. There is some Alpa members carrying a net worth policy of almost 3-4 million dollars!! Tell me where would an NPA member be if they got a heart attack, horrible car accident, diabetes, or even a stroke. Alpa also provides doctors, lawyers, even pays for your hotel to help get your medical. NPA is absolutely worthless its sad how you see pilots who are so afraid of getting in trouble, cause they know that there union is absolutely a load of crap. All of you Airtran pilots know what I am talking about, the fear of the management. Its sad that we dont even have a union that can stand up to a company who can get guys their jobs back who were wrongfully terminated!!

 

[atldc9]

I agree if you look at Loss of Medical insurance options for Airtran Airways pilots, all you get is Mutual Aid. Now what most NPA BOD members dont want to tell you, and they got pissed off when I asked. When you setup something like a Aid account, you do NOT need to by law, maintain a certain amount of money within that account. I have already flown with people who have been denied the amount they were suppose to get in Mutual Aid because there was not enough money. Now you take Alpa's loss of Medical Insurance nothing in this industry comes close to it. The only thing that you can get is an insurance company called Harvey W. Watt ( 800) 241-6103, and the max that you can get is (max 5000 a month) 4 years of payments as well as a lump sump buyout of 250,000! Sounds nice right?? But if you look at the cost you will see that someone in their 30's-40's will spend roughly 3500-4500 dollars a year for this insurance. As well as you have to wait a 12 month grace period to even start collecting. Please call the phone number and ask them how come they dont offer the same type of loss of medical insurance policy as well as an almost immediate payout as Alpa and she will tell you they simply cant. This insurance should be reason enough why Airtran should vote in Alpa. I am really amazed when I see so many people bash Alpa and support NPA. As if NPA has anything or given the pilot group anything except for unprofessionalism. Its hard enough to get in touch with anybody in that union let alone a simple explanation about something. Also one more thing for those in Alpa, they can even opt for more loss of Medical if you want and the expense is not as near what Harvey W Watt would be. There is some Alpa members carrying a net worth policy of almost 3-4 million dollars!! Tell me where would an NPA member be if they got a heart attack, horrible car accident, diabetes, or even a stroke. Alpa also provides doctors, lawyers, even pays for your hotel to help get your medical. NPA is absolutely worthless its sad how you see pilots who are so afraid of getting in trouble, cause they know that there union is absolutely a load of crap. All of you Airtran pilots know what I am talking about, the fear of the management. Its sad that we dont even have a union that can stand up to a company who can get guys their jobs back who were wrongfully terminated!!

I've had Harvey Watt for 5 years, $25.55 a month. Where on earth did you get $3500-$4500 a year?

 

[BigMeat]

I've had Harvey Watt for 5 years, $25.55 a month. Where on earth did you get $3500-$4500 a year?

First how old are you? Second how much coverage and how long? How much do you have to be disabled? If you tell me its better than whats is provided through ALPA then I know that you either dont understand your policy or your not being totally honest. Ive spoken to Harvey Watts myself and they told me outright that they can touch no where near the coverage of ALPA policy. My LTD kicks in after 90 days and covers me till Im 65. I dont have to be "totally disabled" to recieve it. Wringing in my ears will do.

Either way the aruguement is that of what are my union dues get me? How much leverage does my union have? What are my short term and long term goals for a contract? Can NPA get you there? Be honest with yourself. Do you really think that NPA is going to grow a pair, become really powerful and somehow come up with the money to be able to fight and strike if neccessary? If I was at Airtran I would be very afraid that I would lose my major airline line job because someone in management doesnt like me. Or if I got screwed out of a few hundred dollars of pay and could not grieve it. NPA cant even reign in its own Gestapo style training dept.

 

[PCL_128]

It's sad that someone who doesn't even work here seems to understand our problems better than a lot of people who do work here. You're absolutely right, BigMeat.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Management at AAI has the NPA so screwed up they can't even manage their own house let alone put up a united front to negotiate a contract.