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Airtran contract

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NWA was THE founding council if I remember my history right (It's been a LONG time since I read "Flying the Line")...

I don't know about DAL.
 
twepilot said:
anyone know what airlines were original members/founders of Alpa?

RV
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Yes it was American, now what are you referring cause American dumped Alpa we shouldnt give them consideration?? If you look at why they dumped Alpa they felt that they werent militant enough on their view points. But does this mean that Alpa's services as well as bargaining power is any less?? Cause of one airlines decision to drop them?? Actually in fact go look at where APA is today, after AMR sued the hell out of them and they are pretty much almost bankrupt. The funny thing is, you already are starting to see an Alpa movement within in their union as well. Its amazing how many brand new shiny Alpa stickers are appearing on the flight cases of many American pilots. I dont understand TWE how in past previous post you can sit there and bash Alpa so much for things that it was the fault of the pilot group itself. Alpa isnt going to fight a contract for you, but merely provide the servies IF YOU WANT to fight for yourself. Not to mention all the other nice goodies of loss of medical, LTD, etc. You can continue to try with your smart remarks of saying why Alpa is so bad. But tell me some real true concrete things that arent hear say of what Alpa did and back it up!!! I have had this conversation with so many people that now its almost to easy to cite stuff because I have cited it so many times!! Now I am not saying that Alpa is a godsend and its going to save all our problems and everything is going to be great. But come on man, its going to be a hell of alot better then we have!!! I am sick of seeing Airtran pilots cower down cause of their management. Hearing them say oh my god I hope that I dont get a call about this and watch them fret over it like a small child!! You know what I am talking about TWE, even ex TWA guys I have flown with are talking of Alpa. This management loves NPA, why do you think they hate Alpa so much!! Why does our chief pilot openly say he hates Alpa with a passion!!! Why do think they hate Alpa so much??? Is it cause oh maybe Alpa screwed them to?? NOO its because they truely know the power of Alpa'a union. They dont want to have to sit down across a table with a legal team that is just as good as theres.
 
How many red bull's have you had today?? I was simply asking about original airline members. Thanks for your input though it was really enlightening.

RV
 
zman said:
Yes it was American, now what are you referring cause American dumped Alpa we shouldnt give them consideration??
Click to expand...
First, I think the word you're looking for is "inferring".

Second, ALPA wasn't founded by any ONE pilot group, there were several that got together, officially founded in 1931.

AA split off in 1963.
 
zman said:
Yes it was American, now what are you referring cause American dumped Alpa we shouldnt give them consideration?? If you look at why they dumped Alpa they felt that they werent militant enough on their view points. But does this mean that Alpa's services as well as bargaining power is any less?? Cause of one airlines decision to drop them?? Actually in fact go look at where APA is today, after AMR sued the hell out of them and they are pretty much almost bankrupt. The funny thing is, you already are starting to see an Alpa movement within in their union as well. Its amazing how many brand new shiny Alpa stickers are appearing on the flight cases of many American pilots. I dont understand TWE how in past previous post you can sit there and bash Alpa so much for things that it was the fault of the pilot group itself. Alpa isnt going to fight a contract for you, but merely provide the servies IF YOU WANT to fight for yourself. Not to mention all the other nice goodies of loss of medical, LTD, etc. You can continue to try with your smart remarks of saying why Alpa is so bad. But tell me some real true concrete things that arent hear say of what Alpa did and back it up!!! I have had this conversation with so many people that now its almost to easy to cite stuff because I have cited it so many times!! Now I am not saying that Alpa is a godsend and its going to save all our problems and everything is going to be great. But come on man, its going to be a hell of alot better then we have!!! I am sick of seeing Airtran pilots cower down cause of their management. Hearing them say oh my god I hope that I dont get a call about this and watch them fret over it like a small child!! You know what I am talking about TWE, even ex TWA guys I have flown with are talking of Alpa. This management loves NPA, why do you think they hate Alpa so much!! Why does our chief pilot openly say he hates Alpa with a passion!!! Why do think they hate Alpa so much??? Is it cause oh maybe Alpa screwed them to?? NOO its because they truely know the power of Alpa'a union. They dont want to have to sit down across a table with a legal team that is just as good as theres.
Click to expand...

APA is far from bankrupt. Your financial obervation on APA is about 5 years old and currently erroneous.

There was a push for ALPA almost 5-8 years ago. Once again your information is VERY dated.

AAflyer
 
Some good points and arguments. Ok, let's get ALPA in here. MB is not going to get anything done. He just does not have the resources. Why wait 6 months? Would the scabs even be allowed in ALPA?
 
First things first. If anything is going to happen on this, it won't happen until next year after the elections are over, so let's get guys elected that are at least open to the idea. That's the top priority right now.

To answer a couple of questions:

1. ALPA's founder and first President was Dave Behnke, and he was a UAL pilot. However, NWA had the first council. The NWA MSP council is still Council 1. Other early airlines were PanAm, EAL, AAL, etc... Pretty much all of the major airlines were ALPA prior to American's split in the '60s.

2. Yes, the SCABs would most likely be allowed membership if a merger took place. We were working on the Capital Cargo merger when I was working at ALPA National, and that was a condition we agreed to when the merger agreement was drawn up. The same was famously agreed to during the IACP/ALPA merger (CAL). I know it bugs some people, but it must be done to facilitate these organizing efforts.
 
Concerning ALPA

Lear70 said:
If it's something you want, make sure the people you elect this Fall are proponents of ALPA or, at least, are open to doing the will of the majority of the membership. Have ALPA come do roadshows about what they have to offer, then poll the pilot group. If the majority shows they want ALPA, put it out for vote. If not, no harm, no foul, keep the status quo.

Not rocket science...

Not trying to infer that I don't have faith in MB or the BoD, simply that I think that, given the experience level of Kolski, et al. and their focus on concessions at all costs, that we need the resources that ALPA brings to the table.

I'd prefer the personal legal protections ALPA would bring as well,,, but that's for personal reasons.
Click to expand...

I think if we start the things Lear mentioned in motion - electing folks who are open to ALPA, bring ALPA in for roadshows, etc. This is one way to show the company we mean business and are taking steps toward self help.

I am also interested in the added protections from legal and insurance. Personally, I have signed up for AOPA legal - I don't feel like I would get adequate assistance from the NPA if my certificate were threatened.
 
:

2. Yes, the SCABs would most likely be allowed membership if a merger took place. We were working on the Capital Cargo merger when I was working at ALPA National, and that was a condition we agreed to when the merger agreement was drawn up. The same was famously agreed to during the IACP/ALPA merger (CAL). I know it bugs some people, but it must be done to facilitate these organizing efforts.[/quote]


Scabs are not always allowed back in. At the end of the Southern Airways strike, which was won by ALPA after the Democrats got back in power in 1962, the settlement included allowing the scabs to remain, at the bottom of the seniority list, and they had to pay the agency shop fees but got no union benefits. Of course they also did not pay assessments. When we, (North Central) merged with Southern we had to keep them but their status was unchanged. F/O's told me that the scabs were a pain to fly with because they were so terrified of getting a violation of any kind since they had no protection.

DC
 
When Midex brought in ALPA it was up to the midex pilots to vote them in, which they did. I don't think the scabs would get that sympathy at AirTran.
 
Donsa320 said:
Scabs are not always allowed back in. At the end of the Southern Airways strike, which was won by ALPA after the Democrats got back in power in 1962, the settlement included allowing the scabs to remain, at the bottom of the seniority list, and they had to pay the agency shop fees but got no union benefits. Of course they also did not pay assessments. When we, (North Central) merged with Southern we had to keep them but their status was unchanged. F/O's told me that the scabs were a pain to fly with because they were so terrified of getting a violation of any kind since they had no protection.

DC
Click to expand...

Southern Airways? Man, you're going waaaay back. :) Attitudes have changed about this over the years. Trying to exclude the SCABs adds another wrench to the works when you're trying to organize a group that includes them. If you make it clear from the beginning that they'll be allowed in, then it makes the effort go smoother.
 
Sunking said:
I don't think the scabs would get that sympathy at AirTran.
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I certainly have no sympathy, but I would have no problem allowing them in if it facilitates an NPA/ALPA merger. Gotta prioritize.
 
Sunking said:
When Midex brought in ALPA it was up to the midex pilots to vote them in, which they did. I don't think the scabs would get that sympathy at AirTran.
Click to expand...

AirTran would just rehire them as instructors or chief pilots.

The time for ALPA was 2 years ago.
 
Alpa would also be advantagous for the strike we are most probably going to have to do, to get mngmt to take us seriously. I know when I was at TWA we were assessed money for the Comair guys on strike and I was happy to do it, it may only provide you a little over a thousand a month but that is enough to get you through the strike.
As a side note all you Airtran pilots need to start saving because it is not if but when we are going to strike, just a feeling I have about this mgnmt team, I think strike is the only language they know that means we are seroius.
 
71driver said:
As a side note all you Airtran pilots need to start saving because it is not if but when we are going to strike, just a feeling I have about this mgnmt team, I think strike is the only language they know that means we are seroius.
Click to expand...

I've got 18 months living expenses locked up in money market accounts and CD's and I'm ready to use it if necessary.
 
Clyde Frog said:
I've got 18 months living expenses locked up in money market accounts and CD's and I'm ready to use it if necessary.
Click to expand...


Good Job Clyde!! I know many more guys and gals at Airtran that are also prepared or preparing for this..... I guess the old saying "the silent majority" holds true.
 
Clyde Frog said:
I've got 18 months living expenses locked up in money market accounts and CD's and I'm ready to use it if necessary.
Click to expand...

If the banks still exist when you try to take it out.
 

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