Airtran called today!!

[Hopeless_in_GA]

Remember!!!!

The military has all the bombs, the only place the airlines have dropped bombs lately is on Wall Street…

 

[Hopeless_in_GA]

>>>You airline types never cease to amaze me, the sense of entitlement you have is colossal<<<
Colossal?

Wow! Somebody discovered the thesaurus in MS word tools menu…

 

[I.P. Freley]

av8instyle,

Let me guess... Former military, are you?

You missed the point, which is not that military pilots can't be trained to fly 121, but that military pilots aren't more entitled to an interview than civilian pilots.

Now, where's my cappucino machine? Surely it can't be supplied by a flight attendant, as any airline pilot already knows that "Heather" can't hand you a coffee these days after the gear is up. I guess there ARE things that civilian pilots know that you don't?

In any case, you and others are trying to make a very simple point into an argument that you and other military pilots don't know how to work in an airline environment, which isn't and wasn't the case. If you take issue, how about you just take issue with the original point, not the one you WANT it to be to make a good fight?

 

[AV8OR]

To the ex-mil guys who responded...

Preciate the input. See we CAN all get along!

Anyway, best to all. I haven't totally given up on thepossibility of Airtran, but I'm gettin pretty close to to being bound up the proverbial "golden hancuffs" at my current job.

Yall get after it though. Just keep kickin and takin thill you're where ya want to be.

Adios.

 

[IAHERJ]

Heather handed us coffee plenty on our last trip after the gear was up. I don't know what airline you work for but most that I know of allow the flight attendants in the cockpit with some new security procedures that I won't go into on this forum.

 

[I.P. Freley]

I don't know what airline YOU work for (though I am smart enough to take a guess based upon your screen name), but in OURS, you don't open the door unless a cockpit crewmember has a "pressing physiological need."

The "need" of coffee, though, isn't one of them. I have had opportunity to jumpseat or sit in the cabin in a number of airliners in the last year, and in not a one of them did I see the cockpit door open from gate-to-gate.

So... Good for you and your "Heather" flinging you caffeine at your whim, but if you are trying to make an argument about my original point (and NOT the one that AV8instyle and others would like to imagine the point was), please do. This doesn't even come close.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Okay, I will allow that I have not been on any airline flight over two hours....

But that aside, this still doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on the original point.

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Does anyone think a military lawyer deserves a job on Wall Street when his tour is up simply because he served his country?

How about a battelfield surgeon. Does he deserve a job at the Mayo Clinic because he defended his country?

Or should the civilian lawyer who already dealt with corporate law for ten years get the job. Or the civilian doctor who specialized in cancer research.

 

[JimNtexas]

Does anyone think a military lawyer deserves a job on Wall Street when his tour is up simply because he served his country?

How about a battelfield surgeon. Does he deserve a job at the Mayo Clinic because he defended his country?

Or should the civilian lawyer who already dealt with corporate law for ten years get the job. Or the civilian doctor who specialized in cancer research.

DarnNearaJet, those are bogus analogies. Here are more correct analogies from the other perceptive:

Does anyone think a country lawyer is better qualified for job as a corporate litigator when he's only argued cases in small claims court when compared to lawyer who has worldwide experience in high profile legal conflicts involving cutting edge techniques?

The country lawyer is the guy who was a CFI -> Regional pilot, the corporate litigator is the military UPT->C-17 guy.

Which Doctor do you want in the emergency room? A battlefield surgeon who graduated from Harvard Medical (i.e. UPT) or family practitioner who graduated from Corn State U (Mom's FBO)?

Of course no one "deserves" a job. People should be hired based on how well their qualifications match the job's requirements. Former military pilots (I am not one btw) have excellent qualifications for just about any civilian flying job. Get used to it.

 

[AV8OR]

DarnNearaJet, those are bogus analogies. Here are more correct analogies from the other perceptive:

Does anyone think a country lawyer is better qualified for job as a corporate litigator when he's only argued cases in small claims court when compared to lawyer who has worldwide experience in high profile legal conflicts involving cutting edge techniques?

The country lawyer is the guy who was a CFI -> Regional pilot, the corporate litigator is the military UPT->C-17 guy.

Which Doctor do you want in the emergency room? A battlefield surgeon who graduated from Harvard Medical (i.e. UPT) or family practitioner who graduated from Corn State U (Mom's FBO)?

Of course no one "deserves" a job. People should be hired based on how well their qualifications match the job's requirements. Former military pilots (I am not one btw) have excellent qualifications for just about any civilian flying job. Get used to it.

Dude, what did you just drink all the koolaid the military guys you flew with served up?

That is one lousy analogy. I take it from the equip "flown" that you were a Nav on them but have only "flown" as a private pilot. You might want to actually "fly" as a professional before you start refering to non-mil pilots as though they were a bunch of hick country jack-a$$es.

I guess I just needed a big ole slice of that flame-bait pie.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Av8or,

Don't you understand? Every civilian pilot is a country bumpkin and learned at Mom's FBO. I read it online so it must be true.

Every military pilot, however, is totally Yeagerific and are always better than civilian pilots. They are more qualified because they received military training, and we all know that there is no way that any civilian pilot could possibly be anywhere near as good. It all comes down to your first solo, and if it was in a li'l ol' 152 or something, your experience since them is useless.

Shooting at MiGs and tanks is perfect on-the-job training for flying airliners, and your wasted time in other airliners as a "country doctor" is not. Get over it.

Dang, this IS some fine-tasting Kool Aid!

 

[JimNtexas]

Av8or,

Don't you understand? Every civilian pilot is a country bumpkin and learned at Mom's FBO. I read it online so it must be true.

I'm glad I cleared that up for you.

 

[Jake]

Okay folks, can somebody please squawk 7500? This thread has been hijacked. Let's put this one to rest. I like to see when there has been a recent post about AirTran because we are finally getting some respect on this "major" airline forum. But when I click to see what people are saying about AirTran all I see is this on-going argument which has no place on this forum it frustrates me.

I have flown both civilian and military and neither pilot is better than the other (nor more qualified for an airline interview). We each bring different types of experiences and qualifications to an airline. Civilian pilots do have more experience flying the type operation that airliners fly and into the types of airports 121 operators fly into. Were it not for regional, charter and corporate pilots, AirTran would not even be an airline today. They were qualified for an interview when times were good and they are still very qualified today. Military pilots, on the other hand, bring other types of experience to the table. For fear of alienating somebody I will withhold my specific comments as to the qualifications of military pilots.

Let's lay this one to rest or at least start it under a different thread so people won't be mislead to believe there is actually some viable AirTran discussions going on here.

Thanks.

 

[I.P. Freley]

"Let's put this one to rest", you say, and then you fall right into the trap and participate in the "argument"! I am sure more than one of us got a chuckle out of your "(civilian pilots) were qualified for an interview when times were good" comment, but I won't say anything further about it.

This thread, like any other, will die when everyone is bored of it (a point I am very close to), not when you say it should end.

How about starting ANOTHER AirTran thread and let this one die a natural death? Seems easy enough.

 

[BeckyAnne]

IP do you [just] detest the military and it’s members for some unknown reason?
Do you dislike the fact that these guys and gals deserve our utmost gratitude for the job they do, and if two reasonably (not equally but reasonably… using you logic here) qualified candidates are up for a job and the military personnel is hired that it may well be the guy or gal doing the hiring saw it that way.

What is proven and you completely fail to notice is, the screening that goes into placing a military pilot far out weights anything you have gone through and the training they go through far out weighs anything you have gone through, whether you believe it, accept it or even want to understand it… or not.

What were you doing at 350 to 450 hours total time, instructing in a 152 or a 172 somewhere, maybe flying freight or charter in a Baron if you were lucky?

How about the fact that some of these guys (and gals) were boring holes through the sky at mach 2 learning how to employ a weapons system that is far more complicated than anything you will ever touch in your “civilian only” career, having to think at speeds that would have made you simply whimper, crap on yourself then pop the quitters handle and take the silk let down.

Think employing a F-16, F/A-18, B-1 or B-52 during war is as easy as punching a bunch of buttons, then you better think again on that one. Or better yet join, pay your dues and learn first hand yourself.

Or what about a fellow Marine flying support in a Hornet or a Harrier or a Helo for that matter, for a bunch of Marines pinned down on the ground, multitasking in ways you cannot imagine, dodging every **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing the enemy can throw at him or her, pushing themselves to the extreme all the while trying to concentrate on the task at hand?

What about those wild weasel guys/gals?

Ever seen a brass balls award?

I have…

How many civilian pilots ever achieve the position of such a team as the Blue Angeles or the Thunderbirds?

How many civilian pilots ever reach the ultimate dream of piloting or commanding the Space Shuttle?

The position I make is that military pilots have proven that they are far more trainable in a shorter amount of time to do far more complex tasks than hauling self-loading freight around all day. And while you claim that military flying as nothing to do with your beloved 121 ops, even if that is the principal crutch of your argument I, and many others who just out of respect remain silent, understand that a military guy or gal could be trained just as fast or faster to handle a 121 op as a civilian guy or gal.

This whole thread was started by a happy guy posting his fortune with Air Tran them someone else comes along and posts his congratulations and what appears to be his opinion. This obviously didn’t set with you; it evidentially incensed you enough that you have stayed with this thread for going on now two pages.

So you say that military flying has no bearing on 121 flying, okay for the sake of your argument I’ll let that stand…

I say that a military pilot has proven to the world that he or she is absolutely the best and can multitask in ways you cannot even dream of, carry out a mission or die trying all the while absorbing inhuman amounts of pressure.

I think basic indoc. for any 121 carrier would be a walk in the park for that person.

I think they have already proven to a potential employer they are a valuable asset, they can hold up their end of the deal and will do it by the book each time every time and above all understand the most important concept of all, TEAM WORK.

Reading your profile you haven’t served and maybe that was best, reading your comments here I would tend to lean that way.

But this argument could go both ways, your experience is solely civilian right?

So then, what make you the expert on military pilot training?

Becky Anne