Airtran called today!!

[inline]

Phungus, you need to get a grip.

The not-so-veiled accusation that I am not a True American because I don't believe military pilots are more deserving of airline interviews is silly and unnecessary.

I am proud of our men and women in the service, but I stand by my original point. The simple fact that they were in the service doesn't make them uniquely qualified to fly airliners... They do a different kind of flying, and an F-15 driver or an Apache pilot are certainly quite skilled, but they aren't more deserving of an interview at the expense of a civilian pilot with equal time flying other airliners.

If you don't get the distinction, then yes, I guess we can all agree to disagree.

Good post, I.P.

 

[Publishers]

Air inc

While Air Inc may or may not have helped depending on who he talked to there, the keys here are:

Military-- shows ability to deal with disiplines and training
Jet-- already knows and flies in the enviironment in multi engine
Instructor- Leadership

This is exactly the type of candidate that they want. He would have likely received a call eventually with or without Air Inc.

The point is that Air Inc was not the answer, excellent credentials were and if you do not have them, one of the shows will not help you.

 

[AV8OR]

Re: Air inc

While Air Inc may or may not have helped depending on who he talked to there, the keys here are:

Military-- shows ability to deal with disiplines and training
Jet-- already knows and flies in the enviironment in multi engine
Instructor- Leadership

This is exactly the type of candidate that they want. He would have likely received a call eventually with or without Air Inc.

The point is that Air Inc was not the answer, excellent credentials were and if you do not have them, one of the shows will not help you.

Well ya see here's the thing, a T-1 is a Beechjet. Period. How the crap flying a T-1 the military is the "military equivilent" of flying 500 hours of Part 121 PIC, but flying a corporate Beechjet isn't, is absolutely beyond me. But hey, maybe if I was ex-mil, I could figure out that kind of complex equation stuff. Ah, I just figured it out, I've never been trained in celestial navigation techniques.

To T-1: Great job, good luck, I think it'll be a great opportunity I think Airtran is a great company with a bright future!

To Publishers:

Military - may or may not " show ability to deal with disiplines and training" just as PIC 121 or any other.

Jet- not a requirement and not even prefered to 121PIC. Who knows if T-34, T-6II or whatever qualifies?

Instructor- again, may or may not demonstrate "Leadership" One of the worst instructors I ever had was ex-mil on of the best no mil but instructed at Flightsafety for about ten years.

Once you have more experience and have flown with a greater variety from both sides, in both seats of a jet, you'll realize that.

The new mins at Airtran are their right to decide, but don't by into the argument. The new requirements are more about perception than reality. Plenty of their current pilots had none of the above when they were hired.

Not tryin to hammer you, but I think your point has some flaws.

Regards.

 

[AV8OR]

"but don't by" = but don't buy

What they didn't teach me was how to spell. LOL

They tried but I lacked the discipline.

 

[crosscut]

"but don't by" = but don't buy

What they didn't teach me was how to spell. LOL .

it don't matter - us non-military types don't read too good no how.

On another note - the military sure taught John Mohammad, DC sniper, a lot of disclipline & training. Publisher - "jet" is not synonymous with “multi engine” (last time I checked) speaking of which – there is much more to a “multi eng environment” in a twin (or 4 eng) turboprop than there is in a jet. As far as instructor/leadership BS – in an ideal world – I’d agree, but promotions in our military (for the most part) & else where is a lot more political than it is based on abilities. A brown-noser is likely to progress through the ranks much quicker than a good stick “s.h.!.t. disturber.” (many good examples)

T-1 – good luck.

 

[I.P. Freley]

>>>You airline types never cease to amaze me, the sense of entitlement you have is colossal<<<

ROFL!! Now THIS is rich...

Since you decided to throw your hat in the ring (without, it would seem, any grasp of what has been said up this point, since you accuse me of starting what you apparently think is an argument), please explain how it is that the "airline types" are a problem. Is it because we don't believe that military pilots "deserve" an interview more than a civilian-trained one? Does the fact that I believe that heavily-experienced civilian pilots are just as qualified to fly for AirTran as military pilots?

Wow, my sense of entitlement is simply out of control! LOL!!!

If you want to start a fight about it, "wasted space," feel free. Being insulting towards me is a handy alternative to being adult about it, I'm sure. Why address the actual issue, why let other people (phungus) defend their OWN point of view, when you can talk about the state of others' "panties", right?

I do thank you, though, for the best laugh I've had all day. I think the "mean face" emoticon was a nice touch.

 

[BunsenHoneydew]

Re: Re: Air inc

Well ya see here's the thing, a T-1 is a Beechjet. Period. How the crap flying a T-1 the military is the "military equivilent" of flying 500 hours of Part 121 PIC, but flying a corporate Beechjet isn't, is absolutely beyond me. But hey, maybe if I was ex-mil, I could figure out that kind of complex equation stuff. Ah, I just figured it out, I've never been trained in celestial navigation techniques.


To Publishers:

Military - may or may not " show ability to deal with disiplines and training" just as PIC 121 or any other.

Jet- not a requirement and not even prefered to 121PIC. Who knows if T-34, T-6II or whatever qualifies?

Instructor- again, may or may not demonstrate "Leadership" One of the worst instructors I ever had was ex-mil on of the best no mil but instructed at Flightsafety for about ten years.

Once you have more experience and have flown with a greater variety from both sides, in both seats of a jet, you'll realize that.


Not tryin to hammer you, but I think your point has some flaws.

Regards.

This is the first time I have ever chimed in on one of these discussions and I know that it is off the topic, but I have to respond to this post.

As a T-1A IP, flying a T-1A is nothing like flying a civilian Beechjet. A civilian Beechjet takes off, climbs, cruises, descends, accomplishes one approach, and full stops. Awesome and great experience. That is what they are built for and what they are designed to do.

Flying a T-1A, we take a student that normally has less than 150 of TOTAL TIME and fly them all over the place. We accomplish "area work", multiple VFR patterns, multiple back-to-back instrument approaches at multiple bases (military and civilian), high penetrations, VFR navigation, low level navigation (500 feet), area formation work (yes two Beechjets chasing each other around the sky), simulated air refueling (50 feet from each other), and simulated airdrop (two Beechjets at 500 feet through the mountains to "avoid enemy radar"). All in the name to prepare the next generation of heavy aircraft professional military pilots. Remember, we do all of this with a student with less than 150 hour of total time who is the left seat acting as the aircraft commander (Captain).

So, in some ways you are right. Flying a T-1A is not like part 121 time. But that does mean that it is less difficult or less qualifying for employment. In many ways, the way we fly the T-1A gains valuable experience alot faster than the way civilian Beechjets are flown.

I am not attempting to make any enemies here. We do different things, but are both equally qualified to fly for the airlines.

To Av8or:

We do not accomplish celestial navigation at pilot training. They do that at Navigation school. Don't worry you won't have any competion for your airline job from those guys.


To T-1 guy:

Congrats. I think we know each other from H and G back at XL. Hope you get hired and I hope I follow you in a few months.

 

[LearLove]

O boy here we go again

 

[BunsenHoneydew]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Air inc

Wouldn't be too sure about that . As a retired Navy NFO (Nav to you Air Force guys) and a current HAL furloughee, I'm gunning for his Air Tran seat!

I stand corrected. AV8OR I guess you have twice as much competition.

 

[av8instyle]

You know, the ones who have thousands of hours doing what AirTran does every day, not time in a military airplane that has almost no relevance to the reality of 121 ops

Now THAT's a good one.

CA: "positive rate, gear up."
FO: (raises gear handle)
CA: "out of 10k, I can't believe we hired more military dudes whose flying had nothing to do with 121 ops. It's amazing they get through it."
FO: "no kidding...heather wants to know if you need a coffee."
CA: "sure, sweet girl".
2 hours later...
CA: "gear down, final check"
FO: "blah, blah, blah, blah, three green, cleared to land."
FO: "nice landing, I'll get the cappucino"
CA: "thanks, that 121 reality training has realy paid dividends".

 

[Hopeless_in_GA]

Remember!!!!

The military has all the bombs, the only place the airlines have dropped bombs lately is on Wall Street…

 

[Hopeless_in_GA]

>>>You airline types never cease to amaze me, the sense of entitlement you have is colossal<<<
Colossal?

Wow! Somebody discovered the thesaurus in MS word tools menu…

 

[I.P. Freley]

av8instyle,

Let me guess... Former military, are you?

You missed the point, which is not that military pilots can't be trained to fly 121, but that military pilots aren't more entitled to an interview than civilian pilots.

Now, where's my cappucino machine? Surely it can't be supplied by a flight attendant, as any airline pilot already knows that "Heather" can't hand you a coffee these days after the gear is up. I guess there ARE things that civilian pilots know that you don't?

In any case, you and others are trying to make a very simple point into an argument that you and other military pilots don't know how to work in an airline environment, which isn't and wasn't the case. If you take issue, how about you just take issue with the original point, not the one you WANT it to be to make a good fight?

 

[AV8OR]

To the ex-mil guys who responded...

Preciate the input. See we CAN all get along!

Anyway, best to all. I haven't totally given up on thepossibility of Airtran, but I'm gettin pretty close to to being bound up the proverbial "golden hancuffs" at my current job.

Yall get after it though. Just keep kickin and takin thill you're where ya want to be.

Adios.

 

[IAHERJ]

Heather handed us coffee plenty on our last trip after the gear was up. I don't know what airline you work for but most that I know of allow the flight attendants in the cockpit with some new security procedures that I won't go into on this forum.

 

[I.P. Freley]

I don't know what airline YOU work for (though I am smart enough to take a guess based upon your screen name), but in OURS, you don't open the door unless a cockpit crewmember has a "pressing physiological need."

The "need" of coffee, though, isn't one of them. I have had opportunity to jumpseat or sit in the cabin in a number of airliners in the last year, and in not a one of them did I see the cockpit door open from gate-to-gate.

So... Good for you and your "Heather" flinging you caffeine at your whim, but if you are trying to make an argument about my original point (and NOT the one that AV8instyle and others would like to imagine the point was), please do. This doesn't even come close.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Okay, I will allow that I have not been on any airline flight over two hours....

But that aside, this still doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on the original point.

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Does anyone think a military lawyer deserves a job on Wall Street when his tour is up simply because he served his country?

How about a battelfield surgeon. Does he deserve a job at the Mayo Clinic because he defended his country?

Or should the civilian lawyer who already dealt with corporate law for ten years get the job. Or the civilian doctor who specialized in cancer research.

 

[JimNtexas]

Does anyone think a military lawyer deserves a job on Wall Street when his tour is up simply because he served his country?

How about a battelfield surgeon. Does he deserve a job at the Mayo Clinic because he defended his country?

Or should the civilian lawyer who already dealt with corporate law for ten years get the job. Or the civilian doctor who specialized in cancer research.

DarnNearaJet, those are bogus analogies. Here are more correct analogies from the other perceptive:

Does anyone think a country lawyer is better qualified for job as a corporate litigator when he's only argued cases in small claims court when compared to lawyer who has worldwide experience in high profile legal conflicts involving cutting edge techniques?

The country lawyer is the guy who was a CFI -> Regional pilot, the corporate litigator is the military UPT->C-17 guy.

Which Doctor do you want in the emergency room? A battlefield surgeon who graduated from Harvard Medical (i.e. UPT) or family practitioner who graduated from Corn State U (Mom's FBO)?

Of course no one "deserves" a job. People should be hired based on how well their qualifications match the job's requirements. Former military pilots (I am not one btw) have excellent qualifications for just about any civilian flying job. Get used to it.

 

[AV8OR]

DarnNearaJet, those are bogus analogies. Here are more correct analogies from the other perceptive:

Does anyone think a country lawyer is better qualified for job as a corporate litigator when he's only argued cases in small claims court when compared to lawyer who has worldwide experience in high profile legal conflicts involving cutting edge techniques?

The country lawyer is the guy who was a CFI -> Regional pilot, the corporate litigator is the military UPT->C-17 guy.

Which Doctor do you want in the emergency room? A battlefield surgeon who graduated from Harvard Medical (i.e. UPT) or family practitioner who graduated from Corn State U (Mom's FBO)?

Of course no one "deserves" a job. People should be hired based on how well their qualifications match the job's requirements. Former military pilots (I am not one btw) have excellent qualifications for just about any civilian flying job. Get used to it.

Dude, what did you just drink all the koolaid the military guys you flew with served up?

That is one lousy analogy. I take it from the equip "flown" that you were a Nav on them but have only "flown" as a private pilot. You might want to actually "fly" as a professional before you start refering to non-mil pilots as though they were a bunch of hick country jack-a$$es.

I guess I just needed a big ole slice of that flame-bait pie.