AirTran Alaska merger

[Kharma Police]

Lots of good "synergies". We only have one route that overlaps (ATL-SEA). They are on the west coast, we are on the east coast. Similar fleet types, roughly the same number of pilots. Very different business models and management styles. Any thoughts from all the players and haters on FI?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Our unions are meeting this week or next for discussions per the Airtran president. But then again we have been meeting with a lot of unions to discuss possible mergers and put a game plan in place for anything that may pop up in the future.

 

[johnsonrod]

It's all about the feed... I see Delta as a better fit than AirTran. Delta could use the West Coast feed for Asian services and Alaska's fleet fits perfectly with Delta's 737NG fleet. Pure speculation on my part...

 

[Z_Pilot]

I highly doubt Alaska would compromise its unique code-share arrangements...particularly with Delta. Additionally, Airtran has no experience with cargo (Combi and Cargo aircraft in Alaska), etops, challenging Alaska flying, or international operations. I don't really see any synergies.

 

[becket]

I hope for both sides that there is no merger.

 

[Lear70]

Additionally, Airtran has no experience with cargo (Combi and Cargo aircraft in Alaska), etops, challenging Alaska flying, or international operations.

Not that I think it will happen, but the Alaska flying isn't all that more challenging than any other mountainous terrain flying, just a different method of flying the approach.

Additionally, AirTran has more international ops than Alaska does, but I digress...

But as I said, I don't see AL getting into bed with ANYONE... they don't have to, they have a good product, good profit margins, and no reason to really bother.

As far as LH going to talk to the AL MEC Chair, my information is that we're simply opening the lines of communication with *everyone* that's a *POTENTIAL* player, as we've also talked to the SWA MEC Chair and other MEC's. Believe it when we're all wearing the same uniform...

 

[House_X]

I highly doubt Alaska would compromise its unique code-share arrangements...particularly with Delta. Additionally, Airtran has no experience with cargo (Combi and Cargo aircraft in Alaska), etops, challenging Alaska flying, or international operations. I don't really see any synergies.

Airtran does international flying and Airtran is bigger than Alaska.
Challenging Alaska flying, Combi ops, and the international flying (Mexico & Canada is hardly international) does not make Alaska exempt from a buyout/merger...even RJET could make a bid for you guys...

 

[Kharma Police]

I highly doubt Alaska would compromise its unique code-share arrangements...particularly with Delta. Additionally, Airtran has no experience with cargo (Combi and Cargo aircraft in Alaska), etops, challenging Alaska flying, or international operations. I don't really see any synergies.

By international you mean Mexico and Canada? Last time I checked a cargo or transformer Guppy is the same as a pax 73. Don't worry homie, you can keep the Alaska flying, I will keep the hot sticky thunderstorms in the dirty south. However, if a "big bang" merger chain reaction starts, Alaska, in my opinion would be the most logical choice.

 

[alaskaplt]

Can't imagine alaska being the buyer. They don't even want their own 700's. Kind of hard to imagine them wanting a company that is all 700 and 717's. Plus don't see the synergies. And if airtran made a move to buy alaska can't imagine delta not stepping in. Only people I ever hear this rumor from is airtran pilots. And how they would want relative seniority.

 

[gt1900]

Additionally, AirTran has more international ops than Alaska does, but I digress...

Wait. This may have come across wrong. Are you saying AAI has more internation flying then ALA? Because they don't! Just checking, because you made it seem like they did. Do you remember the amount of Russia flying that ALA used to do?

BTW.. Have you even flown in the mountains, or in Alaska? Im guessing you have absolutely zero real mountain flying experience with your last comment! The approaches are the easy part!!! With the exception of Key West, AAI has very, very little flying that even comes close to the complexity of the flying they do at ALA. There is a large group of our pilots that are afraid to fly in the snow, let alone a good storm coming off the coast with winds gusting to 40 or 50 knots. The flying at AAI and the flying in Alaska can't even be compared. Our flying is a joke compared to their South East flying and the flying they do. Heck, our guys were complaining about landing a 737 at Key west, yet ALA used to fly 73's into 3900ft long Dutch Harbor! In case you think our flying is even close to theirs, heres a little video for you! Now imagine a V1 cut!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o46rxK8Lpw&feature=related

The only thing AAI and ALA have in commen are route structures, A/C types, and similar size companies. AAI's business plan wouldn't work at ALA and ALA's business plan wouldn't work at AAI. ALA couldn't make thier business plan work at AAI, and ALA isn't going to accept AAI's business plan on the west coast. As much as Id like to see it work, chances are pretty slim that it would.

 

[gt1900]

Can't imagine alaska being the buyer. They don't even want their own 700's. Kind of hard to imagine them wanting a company that is all 700 and 717's. Plus don't see the synergies. And if airtran made a move to buy alaska can't imagine delta not stepping in. Only people I ever hear this rumor from is airtran pilots. And how they would want relative seniority.

Besides the fact that ALA could write a check for AAI tomorrow, and AAI would have to finance the world to purchase ALA... Naw, won't happen anytime soon, and if it does, ALA will be the purchaser!

 

[General Lee]

Lots of good "synergies". We only have one route that overlaps (ATL-SEA). They are on the west coast, we are on the east coast. Similar fleet types, roughly the same number of pilots. Very different business models and management styles. Any thoughts from all the players and haters on FI?

Nah, that would mean AK would have to dump a very lucrative code share with DL through the SEA hub and onward towards Asia. AK has 737-400s/700s/800s/900s, and besides the -900s and -400s, a lot of airlines have common aircraft with them. American, CAL, SWA, DL, and Airtran all have those types of planes (DL has -700/800s, CAL has -700/800/900s, AA has -800s, SWA and Airtran have -700s). When it comes to overlap, Airtran, DL, AA, and CAL all don't have a lot. SWA does overlap more out of SEA and PDX compared to the others. So, when it comes down to it, which of the airlines does AK work with now, and how is that working out with them? (hint the big D) If someone else makes a play at AK, then maybe DL and AK will make a move to make it even "closer." You never know, but I hope to fly into Sitka someday in the left seat of one of those planes. That would be FANTASTIC. You just never know....



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Lear70]

Wait. This may have come across wrong. Are you saying AAI has more internation flying then ALA? Because they don't! Just checking, because you made it seem like they did. Do you remember the amount of Russia flying that ALA used to do?

USED to do? How about now? Have you checked AAI's route map lately? Just wondering... Because AAI and ALA are probably pretty comparable in terms of the *amount* of international routes, if not the distances and ETOPS (which, again, can be easily trained for). AirTran isn't just a Southeast airline anymore...

BTW.. Have you even flown in the mountains, or in Alaska? Im guessing you have absolutely zero real mountain flying experience with your last comment!

Well, as usual, you're pretty clueless about me. I've been flying in the mountains since I was 20, my first real flying job, and I do a LOT of Alaska flying, not to mention Mexico airports that are 9,000 feet field elevation IN the mountains these days in the Lears and Falcons (and have both before and since AirTran), in and out of fields you probably wouldn't even consider because,,, well, that's our job. So make sure you don't assume...

The approaches are the easy part!!! With the exception of Key West, AAI has very, very little flying that even comes close to the complexity of the flying they do at ALA.

Key West isn't complex. It's pretty straightforward, actually.

There is a large group of our pilots that are afraid to fly in the snow, let alone a good storm coming off the coast with winds gusting to 40 or 50 knots. The flying at AAI and the flying in Alaska can't even be compared. Our flying is a joke compared to their South East flying and the flying they do. Heck, our guys were complaining about landing a 737 at Key west, yet ALA used to fly 73's into 3900ft long Dutch Harbor! In case you think our flying is even close to theirs, heres a little video for you! Now imagine a V1 cut!

*yawn* It's an airplane. We fly them. It's not all that difficult until something goes wrong and, even when it does, there are exit routes. That's what we get paid to do. We don't draw the incomes we draw to fly day in, day out throughout the year, we get paid what we do because we are gone from our families for extended periods of time and are expected to make life-saving decisions when it goes down hill.

The day to day flying itself isn't that extreme, at *any* carrier. Unless you're being shot at, and you don't get that at either AAI or ALA.

The majority of pilots that have reached this level can be trained to execute those approaches, it has absolutely *NOTHING* to do with integrating two carriers.

That said, again, I see no reason Alaska would consider an AirTran hookup. Bob may be shopping for a dance partner, but Alaska, for the most part, doesn't seem to be interested in joining the merger mania party...

 

[Ty Webb]

yAWn!

Joe Leonard told my recurrent class 5 or 6 years ago that AirTran had approached both Midwest Express and Alaska about merging, and " . . . neither of the two had any interest in it whatsoever".

So, there you have it; I doubt that Alaska's position has changed in regard to marryin' a Tranny.

 

[gt1900]

USED to do? How about now? Have you checked AAI's route map lately? Just wondering... Because AAI and ALA are probably pretty comparable in terms of the *amount* of international routes, if not the distances and ETOPS (which, again, can be easily trained for). AirTran isn't just a Southeast airline anymore...

Well, as usual, you're pretty clueless about me. I've been flying in the mountains since I was 20, my first real flying job, and I do a LOT of Alaska flying, not to mention Mexico airports that are 9,000 feet field elevation IN the mountains these days in the Lears and Falcons (and have both before and since AirTran), in and out of fields you probably wouldn't even consider because,,, well, that's our job. So make sure you don't assume...

Key West isn't complex. It's pretty straightforward, actually.

*yawn* It's an airplane. We fly them. It's not all that difficult until something goes wrong and, even when it does, there are exit routes. That's what we get paid to do. We don't draw the incomes we draw to fly day in, day out throughout the year, we get paid what we do because we are gone from our families for extended periods of time and are expected to make life-saving decisions when it goes down hill.

The day to day flying itself isn't that extreme, at *any* carrier. Unless you're being shot at, and you don't get that at either AAI or ALA.

The majority of pilots that have reached this level can be trained to execute those approaches, it has absolutely *NOTHING* to do with integrating two carriers.

That said, again, I see no reason Alaska would consider an AirTran hookup. Bob may be shopping for a dance partner, but Alaska, for the most part, doesn't seem to be interested in joining the merger mania party...

Exactly. Key west is a joke. Yet AAI guys were up in arms about flying into it when we announced it. I find it interesting that you have so much Mt experience yet you think that the approach is the hard part. If you don't think there is a different mentality with AAI pilots and ALA pilots then you are sorely mistaken! Fly the RNP approach, or departure into Juneau through the Gastina Channel, then get back to me. The flying that AAI does is simple everyday flying with not a single tough airport to fly into, and ZERO mountains. ALA flys into some of the toughest jet airports in the world. Youve flown in Alaska, youve seen what can happen in the winter when a storm brews. We have nothing that comes even close to that in the lower 48. I had a Cpt get very, very nervous in ROC when they were reporting 200-1/2 with snow and winds gusting to 30 with fair breaking action. Thats a pretty regular occurance for the guys at Alaska!

AAI flys scheduled trips to exactly 4 international destinations. Cancun, Aruba, Montego Bay, and Nasau. WOW!!!!! Alaska Airgroups flys to 15, of which Alaska flys to 10 I believe. Not a lot, but far more then AAI. Throw in 4 Hawaii destinations from 6 different cities and we arent exactly talking the same type of flying. Heck, we don't even have rafts on our planes. Imagine half of our F/A's if they had to get their hair wet in water training!