AirTran Alaska merger

[400ADude]

Can you imagine being over at Alaska and having to merge with Valuejet?

 

[GuppyWN]

Lots of good "synergies". We only have one route that overlaps (ATL-SEA). They are on the west coast, we are on the east coast. Similar fleet types, roughly the same number of pilots. Very different business models and management styles. Any thoughts from all the players and haters on FI?

I'd rather them put up with your expectations and "major airline" pilot demands than WN.

Yep, I said it.

Flame on brother.

Gup

 

[Kharma Police]

Can you imagine being over at Alaska and having to merge with Valuejet?

You got that right dude! It would be the end of the world for those guys. Good thing Midwest didn't merge with us....

 

[Ty Webb]

Can you imagine being over at Alaska and having to merge with Valuejet?

Can you imagine getting turned down by AirTran, then sulking for the next 5 years, "butting in" to every AirTran topic with nothing to say but "Valujet" . . . . .:bawling:

Can you imagine changing your screen name every few months because you get banned for juvenile behavior, yet you re-register again under a newer, stupider name, because you just can't help yourself . . . . :erm:

Can you imagine coming home from your lousy commuter gig, and finding your old lady in bed with some AirTran FO . . . . who doesn't even know who Valujet was . . . . so he just laughs at you . . . .


Apparently, you can ! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[OurMoney1]

You guys are ridiculous.

WHAN.....my flying is harder than yours..........whan......mommy give me your tit to suckle......whan....

 

[Kharma Police]

I'd rather them put up with your expectations and "major airline" pilot demands than WN.

Yep, I said it.

Flame on brother.

Gup

I guess the Frontier pilots took your advice.

 

[Ocity]

Fly the RNP approach, or departure into Juneau through the Gastina Channel, then get back to me.

Gastineau Channel...it is quite a site.

 

[Dash8don]

ALA's product is 10X's better then SWA's and their ticket prices are within 10-15 bucks on most flights.

One of the execs a few months ago told a group of us that this difference was more like $1 or $2 more on most routes (I think he meant on average), but you can decide yourself. I temporarily lost my pass benefits due to medical issues a few years ago and wanted to go to Vegas for a friends birthday. Being short on cash I looked at all the options and Alaska was still the least expensive, and a non-stop to boot, compared to Southwest.

 

[400ADude]

Say what you want critter boy but Alaska is in a different league.

 

[ATLplt]

Take it easy Nanook.

:laugh:

 

[QCappy]

Yes, they make money yet still furlough pilots, go figure. They have a monopoly on some routes in Alaska and Seattle, tell me how they are doing in LAX. If Delta or Southwest wanted to make their lives miserable they could in a heartbeat. Delta could drop the code share and spool up the NWA operations in SEA and ANC. They have already started to ramp up their operations on the west coast. Look what happened with Midwest when they didn't adapt to the changes in the playing field. Heck, Mesa could set up shop in ANC like they did in Hawaii, it didn't take them long to run Aloha out of business. Alaska Air can keep plodding along the same course and keep making hay while the sun is shinning but the winters up north in the future will keep getting longer and darker. In my opinion they will have to merge with someone.

You just proved you know nothing about Alaska.

 

[General Lee]

You just proved you know nothing about Alaska.

DL and AK seem to get more and more close everyday. I think AK is moving to terminal 6 at LAX, right next to DL in 5 and part of 6. I think Horizon (owned by AK) just sold ASA some CR7s....maybe a coincidence, maybe not??? You just never know.....maybe AK and DL like the situation they have right now. But, if someone makes a move at AK, then maybe DL would try to protect that "friendship..." USAir made CAL make a move for UAL, so maybe someone else will do the same for AK....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Mamma]

Yes, they make money yet still furlough pilots, go figure. They have a monopoly on some routes in Alaska and Seattle, tell me how they are doing in LAX. If Delta or Southwest wanted to make their lives miserable they could in a heartbeat. Delta could drop the code share and spool up the NWA operations in SEA and ANC. They have already started to ramp up their operations on the west coast. Look what happened with Midwest when they didn't adapt to the changes in the playing field. Heck, Mesa could set up shop in ANC like they did in Hawaii, it didn't take them long to run Aloha out of business. Alaska Air can keep plodding along the same course and keep making hay while the sun is shinning but the winters up north in the future will keep getting longer and darker. In my opinion they will have to merge with someone.

Well we all know what opinions are like. Anyway, I digress. ALK stock is almost at $50 a share....up from $15/change a year ago. Not really affordable anymore.

 

[Quimby]

This is one of the more entertaining threads in some time.

 

[Lear70]

Exactly. Key west is a joke. Yet AAI guys were up in arms about flying into it when we announced it. I find it interesting that you have so much Mt experience yet you think that the approach is the hard part. If you don't think there is a different mentality with AAI pilots and ALA pilots then you are sorely mistaken! Fly the RNP approach, or departure into Juneau through the Gastina Channel, then get back to me. The flying that AAI does is simple everyday flying with not a single tough airport to fly into, and ZERO mountains. ALA flys into some of the toughest jet airports in the world. Youve flown in Alaska, youve seen what can happen in the winter when a storm brews. We have nothing that comes even close to that in the lower 48. I had a Cpt get very, very nervous in ROC when they were reporting 200-1/2 with snow and winds gusting to 30 with fair breaking action. Thats a pretty regular occurance for the guys at Alaska!

AAI flys scheduled trips to exactly 4 international destinations. Cancun, Aruba, Montego Bay, and Nasau. WOW!!!!! Alaska Airgroups flys to 15, of which Alaska flys to 10 I believe. Not a lot, but far more then AAI. Throw in 4 Hawaii destinations from 6 different cities and we arent exactly talking the same type of flying. Heck, we don't even have rafts on our planes. Imagine half of our F/A's if they had to get their hair wet in water training!

So, in this discussion of a merger, explain to me exactly WHAT relevance, if any, the above diatribe has towards whether any worthwhile "synergies" would exist? That *WAS* the original thread topic, incidentally...

Obviously the route structures would compliment (East/West) and, again, the flying is flying is flying. The end. Period. I have faith in my brethren at AirTran that they could cross-train to AL ops and ETOPS without issue, so that is a COMPLETE non-issue for the merits of this discussion.

Just trying to get this thread back on track from where it jumped the shark so explain to me, how exactly, the differences in flying have ANYTHING to do with the financial reasons a merger might or might not happen, because that's the ONLY reason this would, or wouldn't, come to fruition...

 

[AK737FO]

This has been a fun read. All I know, is that the flying we do through out the winter would make most UAL pilots puke, call in sick and go home. If I have not seen your AXS sitting next to me, then your opinions about working the Arctic and Southeast in the winter mean less than squat to me. If you are not there, then you have no idea. That being said, this has been an intertaining read - just don't dish the MUDHEN ! (may the good Lord rest her soul)

 

[igneousy2]

Not that I think it will happen, but the Alaska flying isn't all that more challenging than any other mountainous terrain flying, just a different method of flying the approach.

I understand what you're saying about the approaches...but I hope you're not on the negotiating committee.

Make no mistake about it...no other US airline does what Alaska pilots do on a daily basis with the frequency we do as compared to a percentage of our operation. Yes - everybody has a Quito...but I also know that many pilots at the other airlines bid around their "Quitos" and avoid it for entire careers. There is no avoiding Ketchikan or Juneau if you are an Alaska pilot. And it's not JUST Juneau or Ketchikan...it's Wrangell, Petersburg, Cordova, Sitka, Gustavus...oh, and we fly to Orange County, Boston, Burbank, and DC to. I just did a Kodiak turn the other day ...the field was 800/3, BRAG, 13 knot direct tail wind onto a 7000 foot strip flying straight into a valley (can't fly the other way because the airport is in a valley). That was plenty of adrenaline (this was a beautiful day for Kodiak) AND I LOVED IT! You've got to love that kind of flying to work for Alaska --- and we should be compensated accordingly --- saying that flying into Kodiak or Juneau or Ketchikan is no different than flying into Denver, RNP or not, is doing us a disservice and could not be further from the truth.

To be clear. I'm not saying that there aren't pilots at other airlines that would do a fantastic job flying in SE or the Arctic...and enjoy it...but there are also ones that wouldn't and they get weeded out pretty quickly...mostly by self-selection.(i.e. they don't even apply) I use to fly with Captains at a previous airline that called in sick every time it snowed...I don't expect to see any of them around these parts anytime soon.

As far as any airline buying Alaska, I think the only two realistic possibilities (if any) are American or Delta. Delta and American are so dependent on us for the West Coast feed there is no way either one would allow Alaska to hook up with another airline and put there West Coast feed in jeopardy. Southwest might be an outside shot but acquisitions are not part of their normal MO so I would be very surprised.

 

[Lear70]

Oh there's no arguing you guys do an awesome job in flying that *some* pilots definitely *WOULD* avoid for their entire career if they could. Could they be trained to do it and do it safely? Sure. Otherwise NO ONE would be doing it... but those pilots prefer not to, and that's fine.

There's also no arguing that AK pilots do that type of flying more often than just about anyone else. Your safety record in completing those flights speaks for itself, wasn't trying to marginalize what you do... I've been to Juneau, Ketchikan, and even way the hell out to Sitka - I think the weather perpetually sucks up there, or I just have the bad luck to get out there on days it does. Gets your attention, that's for sure.

I'm just saying that, from a merger / buyout point of view, I simply don't believe it's a sticking point, as the original poster who brought up the "type" of flying ALK does as being somehow related to whether or not a deal would be worthwhile.

 

[STL717]

I just did a Kodiak turn the other day ...the field was 800/3, BRAG, 13 knot direct tail wind onto a 7000 foot strip flying straight into a valley (can't fly the other way because the airport is in a valley).

You don't have a 10 Knot tailwind limitation?????

 

[Data]

In case you think our flying is even close to theirs, heres a little video for you! Now imagine a V1 cut!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o46rxK8Lpw&feature=related

WOW! An F..A..A approved departure where we turn left right after takeoff and then turn right and fly back over the runway! That must take weeks to learn in the sim! Do they let the FOs fly that departure?