Airnet Interview

[upndsky]

I thought the non-us citizen rule applied only to training in aircraft that are more than 12,500 lbs, which certainly doesn't apply to any of the props that Airnet flies, except perhaps the Caravan (can someone clarify this?) and most definitely the Lears (I know, it's a jet). I am a little surprised that Airnet would turn someone down for this reason, since he/she is not going to see a Lear for some time to come. And if Riddle Momma is right, by his own admission the recruiter said this non-citizen issue will be settled soon.

The freight company I fly for has a number of non-citizens on the payroll and continues to hire such pilots, as long as they have the legal means to work here. In our case, the largest plane we fly is a Cessna 402 and all training is done inhouse.

 

[wingnutt]

caravan max takeoff weight = 8750#

...maybe they dont want anyone not eligible to fly all the aircraft on their ticket???

 

[fraitman]

Nice post Boiler. You are using your head, considering all factors, and getting the job done while being safe and legal. I'm sure your company must appreciate your level of thinking.

Some pilots have these religious convictions when it comes to regulations and safety issues. They draw these arbritrary boundaries to what they can do, and fail to take an objective look at all the information available. A conscientious decision should be made considering the circumstances with each indiviual situation. There are so many variables, a good pilot looks at all the factors, and makes sure they also have an out for any potential hazardous situation they may encounter.

Some may refuse to fly if freezing rain is on the ATIS, but it never occurs to them to look at the icing themselves, and make a decision as the Captain on what the conditions actually are. I know freight dogs who have doing this kind of work for 20 - 30 years with no incidents, accidents or violations, and they consistently find a way to get the job done. They use their head and keep management, customers, and the FAA all happy.

 

[100LL... Again!]

At the regional where I flew, the vast majority of pilots came directly from CFI jobs and never flew in any type of sognificant weather prior to being hired. Many of them had the perspective that 135 freight pilots were bunch of unprofessional clowns that were lucky to have lived through the job. I think that they were trying to justify their own lower level of experience by putting our profession down.

I have seen a few 121 pilots get antsy over weather that would not have even registered on the fear scale for someone with a lot of experience. Am I dissin' 121 pilots? Nope. I are one.

I had to laugh when pilots who never flew 135 would take a parental tone with me about how unsafe freight flying was.

Screw them, they were'nt there. Some people are more comfortable in a turboprop or RJ with two pilots and lots of support. Fine. But don't talk of whence you know not.

Doin' it freight-doggy style was the best!

 

[tdvalve]

Judging from the bravado, I doubt that any of you heroic pilots have ever actually flown in freezing rain. It might have been forecast or reported, but it probably was very, very light or didn't exist. You wouldn't be here making light of it if you had. A light twin in moderate freezing rain is minutes away from being a smoking hole. I followed a similar thread about flying in thunderstorms a few months ago. Same debate, a few aces purporting to speak for all freight pilots poo-pooed the danger. I've got a few years flying night freight, and its's not a very forgiving environment. I'd hate to see some inexperienced freight pilot taking any of this BS to heart and going out and killing himself. You can do it and maybe get away with it a few times. But, it'll bite you in the butt if it becomes a habit. Problem is, it might bite you in the butt the first time.

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
I thought I'd post this for those interestd in reading it:

http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/181878-1.html

http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/181877-1.html

I have an opinion about icing that is based on the result of a Navy SH-60 that crashed in the mountains of Southern California after an encounter with icing, all aboard were killed.
Logically, I think that any flight/mission should be evaluated prior to launch. Careful consideration should be given to the limitations of self and machine. This is a moving target when viewed from one pilot to another, one machine to another. However, from a person that has "been there and done that" as a flight crewmember under some pretty hairy conditions. Demanding missions that require the maximum of both man and machine can be accomplished professionally and safely. The mark of a professional is knowing when that limit is reached and then having the fortitude to "raise the BS flag".

Regards and Fly Safely out there,

ex-Navy rotorhead

 

[tdvalve]

An exerpt from one of the Avweb articles:

"Icing from above (freezing rain) is a component of the natural selection process. Out west, those conditions occur perhaps a couple times a year. The pilots who fly in those conditions are eliminated from the aviator gene pool and you no longer have to avoid them while they are taking off from taxiways at uncontrolled airports."

Funny, but morbid and accurate.

 

[jaybird]

"Suburban sold off its CE-402Bs and purchased known-icing certified Cessna Caravans to replace them. The Caravans lack some of the systems redundancy of the turbo-twins and are not as popular with the pilots (who are looking to build multi-engine time — not single-engine turboprop time). But Suburban can now launch when the conditions are safe, even if there is a blanket forecast for isolated severe icing covering 2-1/2 states."

I think some C208 drivers may have something to say about this(the last paragraph from "An Icing Encounter). I don't fly the C208, but I know a lot of guys who do. I think I'd rather be in a 402 even if it wasn't certified for "known icing."

Comments anyone?

 

[Checks]

First of all, the C208 can be a scary airplane in the ice. Ensure the airplane is "clean" prior to takeoff and have an out in icing conditions. Some people say it is a flying truck, well, in the winter it is a flying ice cube.

As far as freezing rain. I wasnt there so I suspect that there wasnt freezing rain, just a report on the ATIS of freezing rain. I will say that if you were to encounter MODERATE Freezing Rain on takeoff/climb to altitude in a beat up BE-58 then you would be screwed like a *hore in Thailand. I dont think any aircraft at Airnet are certified to fly in moderate freezing rain. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure management wouldn't be willing to take that risk. If it was just "light drizzle" then you should have said that.
In addition, someone mentioned holdover times. Being de-iced on the ground provides ZERO protection in the air. Holdover times are just a guide that dont even give you a time for moderate freezing rain(at least none that I have ever seen). I understand flying between thunderstorms and in all kinds of **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty weather but freezing rain bites pilots in the ass every now and then. Just Be careful because it is your a** on the line along with your career and certificates.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Yes tdvalve, I have never flown in freezing rain. I was bluffing all along. Thanks for being the all-knowing.

I didn't hear much bravado. Some pilots are more skittish than others. What else is new?

 

[upndsky]

To bring this thread back to its original topic -- Riddle Momma's interview with Airnet -- I just read on Avweb that DOJ has finalized its process to allow non-citizens to begin initial training in aircraft over 12,500 lbs. I've searched around the web and haven't found any details. This jives with what a friend of mine at ACA has heard, that the airline was recently informed by DOJ that approval of the process was immenent. So, Riddle Momma, hang in there.

Now to take the thread back off track, in December I landed in a Seneca II in freezing rain. The ceilings were 1,000 MSL and the temp above 2000 MSL was above freezing. So that was a 1,000 feet of precip we had to fly through. While on the approach, the Part 121 carrriers were holding over the outer marker, trying to convice the controller to change the ATIS from freezing rain to light freezing rain. I suppose that their OpSpecs allows them to land in light freezing rain, but not freezing rain. I mention this because another poster wrote that Part 121 pilots were smart for not flying in freezing rain. So why then were these guys trying to convince the controller to change the ATIS? The message is that one must know the capabilities of the airplane and of one's own flying abilities. Think of a 300-hour instrument pilot with little or no actual time flying an approach to minimums. Legal? Yes. Safe? Doubtful. A freightdog who does this day in and day out, on the other hand, could do it with one eye closed and one hand tied behind his back. Don't judge a pilot for flying through freezing rain without being there to analyze all the facts.

 

[starchkr]

What is it with some people talking about how beat up our planes are?!?!? Do they realize that paint on some of them is pretty bad, but that is only aluminum deep? What most of those who call our planes beat up don't know is that they are mostly equiped better than the planes they are flying. This includes MOST turbo props being flown by the regionals, and some Jets being flown by the majors. We might not have as many dials and buttons, but our equipment is better.

Also for the poster who said the Dallas Air Inc. show was useless for Airnet, well it might have been for you! We could only pass on the info that was given to us to. We were told not to take resumes, because Airnet is trying to go solely with the online app from now on.

To the freezing rain posts, yes there is a way to do it safely and legally. Also really i don't care whether the 121 guys go in it or not, it never even crosses my mind. But also remember, we have an ontime record of 98%+, lets see anyone else top that.

 

[HAZ-MAT]

With our A.P.E kit... we can go to 9062#... so you do not need a type. However since the training is done at Flight Safety in a simulator.. thats why i think there lies the problem with non US Citizens getting into training in a simulator. As some people like to call the van.... The Flying Icy Coffin of Death... funny funny.

 

[wingnutt]

...not that ~100# makes a big difference in the grand scheme of things, but whats an APE kit?

 

[HAZ-MAT]

APE

Aircraft payload extender.... They it allows you to carry more payload, but restricts your landing weight, adding an additional .4 to your flight in order to land under max landing weight. Externally they added 2 wing farings by the pitot tubes