Airman closed until further notice..

[phantomdriver]

There are a lot of good flight schools out there and many are better then airman.

 

[minitour]

There are a lot of good flight schools out there and many are better then airman.

Amen!

...and that's not to say that Airman was (note past tense) bad. They were (at one time) a good place to go to school. But I think that people that went there 3, 4, 5 years ago really have no place to comment on the present day operations...at least not as much as students that have been in attendance within the past year-year 'n'a half...

MHO

...but yes, a lot out there...and I mean a lot...are better than Airman.

-mini

 

[millhouse21]

I went to Airman for my CFI/II/MEI back in 2002. I left satisfied; i.e. they provided the contracted services in the agreed time frame but I really feel for you guys that are getting screwed. I gave them my money up front too and although we're not talking the same kind of cash you are, losing 6-7 grand at that point in my life would have really hurt. There but for the grace of God go I. Best of luck!

 

[350DRIVER]

It's pretty easy to satisfy me.

Provide the services contracted in the agreed upon timeframe.

That didn't take place and when I voiced my displeasure, I was "benched"...for a month.

To me, that's unacceptable.

I can refer anyone to at least a half dozen others that attened at the same time as myself with the same opinions.

A pretty shady operation that unfortunately now has "current" students in trouble.

Like I said before, "go get 'em guys!"

Again, I am not one to make premature assumptions until the facts come out nor am I about to condemn those in the inner circle for what they may or may not be responsible for. If it does turn out in a court of law that Airman and those running the place deceived, stole, and committed fraud then by all means I will be the first to say that I hope they pay a steep price and throw them all in jail for as long as the law will permit. Many believe this is the case, I am just one to wait until the facts come out and the dust clears before I will make these severe accusations against these people. In America I was once told you are innocent until proven guilty.

As I told you in months past and will tell you once again for the final time here that I was sorry to hear about your experience there but you were the first that I had heard of that had this sort of experience with the flight school.

There are a lot of good flight schools out there and many are better then airman.

You are correct and I agree with you however there are a lot of flight schools out there that were worse than Airman in my opinion.

...and that's not to say that Airman was (note past tense) bad. They were (at one time) a good place to go to school. But I think that people that went there 3, 4, 5 years ago really have no place to comment on the present day operations...at least not as much as students that have been in attendance within the past year-year 'n'a half...

Contrary to popular belief the school had not changed much within that time period so I do think I myself as well as the other former Airman grads do indeed deserve and have earned the right to comment on the school, whether recent grads or not is irrelevant in my opinion. The main change that took place is the school's finances which may have been mismanaged and not handled properly, this will come out in time but before I jump on this rapidly forward moving bandwagon I will wait until all facts are made public before I condemn the above mentioned individuals. I have talked to more than a few recent grads and again their experience(s) were quite different than the picture being painted here by a few.

I went to Airman for my CFI/II/MEI back in 2002. I left satisfied; i.e. they provided the contracted services in the agreed time frame but I really feel for you guys that are getting screwed. I gave them my money up front too and although we're not talking the same kind of cash you are, losing 6-7 grand at that point in my life would have really hurt. There but for the grace of God go I. Best of luck!

I had the same experience and left extremely satisfied, content, and well within the promised time frame as most all in my I/II class did. With the exception of one person on this board who I made the recommendation to attend Airman I have heard nothing but positive feeback pertaining to the school. Again, if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't have done a thing differently with regards to getting the I/II at Airman.

In closing, I do truly hope that all those who lost the money are able to somehow find a way to complete the training, obtain the licenses, ratings, and move on.

If Airman is found guilty of all charges then by all means "go get em"

I don't blame those who are content with their Airman-brand training for holding back their ill will from Brenda & Co., but even without all the suspicious facts that have been unearthed in this case,

I don't have any "ill will" against Brenda & Co., again my experiences with this school, staff, former owner was not one that would leave any "ill will" in my body. I am not going to make excuses for what they may or may not be responsible for in recent times, again if they are "guilty" in a court of law then by all means they should pay for their actions. Being found "guilty" however by a few on a public message board does not change my mind, in due time through the appropriate legal process within this country will determine whether or not they have done illegal acts.

Again, I do feel sorry for those who have lost money, time, and most importantly the chance at achieving the dream of joining the professional pilot ranks. I do hope in time that all are able to get to where they want to get to.

 

[A Squared]

In America I was once told you are innocent until proven guilty.

you were told incorrectly. In the United States (America is 2 continents and over 20 countries, even North America is 3 countries) you are entitled to be *presumed* innocent under the law until proven guilty in a court of law) That has little relevance to the question of whether a person is in fact gulty of having done something. It certainly imposes no restraing on private citizens forming opinions on a persons guilt, and expressing them .... which is what is taking place here.

 

[NYCPilot]

Word has it that Will DeGraw still has self-examining authority and is instructing for free to those who didn't finish their CFI-II program. I think the students have to pay for the AC rental though.

 

[MFRskyknight]

Word has it that Will DeGraw still has self-examining authority and is instructing for free to those who didn't finish their CFI-II program. I think the students have to pay for the AC rental though.

Yeah, and the poor guy is probably up to his neck in students/paperwork/bounced paychecks, etc. If this is what the school's attorney is trying to pass of as "still in operation," according to the Ch9 news, he needs to get his head out of his @ss and wipe the sh*t from his eyes.

Sorry, but jeez, I hate these people.

MFR

 

[phantomdriver]

If you want to see if airman flight school or any flight owns their plane or someone else go to this web site. http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/defimg.asp
it is the faa's web site.

 

[MFRskyknight]

Airman owned 23 planes??

Well, looks like I might have been misinformed...

Here's the FAA's list of the aircraft owned by Airman. 23 total... seems a little high to me.

http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/nameSQL.asp?nametxt=Airman+Flight+School&sort_option=5

 

[350DRIVER]

you were told incorrectly. In the United States (America is 2 continents and over 20 countries, even North America is 3 countries) you are entitled to be *presumed* innocent under the law until proven guilty in a court of law) That has little relevance to the question of whether a person is in fact gulty of having done something. It certainly imposes no restraing on private citizens forming opinions on a persons guilt, and expressing them .... which is what is taking place here.

I should have been a little more clear about what I meant with that comment. Again, those who have formed opinions of guilt are just that, opinions and they are absolutely entitled to form them. You are correct in stating that "private citizens" have this right and can *presume* guilt, form opinions, etc, as I have done. I never argued that point but reality of the issue is that they will have to take this issue/matter into a "court of law" to get it resolved since the likelihood or probability of obtaining some sort of out of court settlement is unlikely and not very probable in my opinion.

I will reiterate it once again, I do feel for these folks who have been stopped from pursuing a dream, goal, being able to finish the flight training, etc.

 

[phantomdriver]

It looks like airman does have some assets.

 

[Hipster Loser]

what a messy situation.
Thoses guys deserve to be sued. But im not surpirsed they shut todwn. Lots of flight schools are fly by night operations. I know they were around for a while but still, these places can shut down on a moments notice. It sounds like they knew they were being evicted and took ppls money. real foul.

 

[AV80R]

Déjà vu!

Wow, this situation sounds eerie familiar to me.

Years ago (~93 or so?), I was planning on attending Bolivar Aviation flight school in west Tennessee and only 5 days before my check was deposited - the flight school went out of business!!! (The check was actually already in the mail, I managed to get it cancelled )

There were tons of stranded students; most of them lost thousands and thousands of dollars. If I remember it correctly, after several lawsuits, all American student got 11¢ for each $ they had on their flight accounts; the foreign students got nothing (no protection for them at the time).

Several years later, another flight school in Tennessee (IFC – International Flight Center - Murfreesboro, TN) was behind payments to the city so they decided to move their operations to, SURPRISE!, Norman, OK. I believe they ended up merging with Airman, not sure on this one but I think that’s what happened.

Well, one of the reasons the owner of the flight school wanted to relocate to Oklahoma was a law enacted in TN due to the Bolivar Aviation fiasco. In a nutshell: a flight school in Tennessee is nowadays allowed to make a student pay for their training in advance, however the money must be locked in a special account that is only available to that particular student. In other words, they cannot use money from “new” students to pay the bills of “old” students. From what I understand, Oklahoma does (or did) not have similar laws.

Those regulations “stifled the growth” of IFC according to the owner (remember reading this in a local paper years ago), so they moved their entire operation. It looks to me like those regulations were the only protection students, both American AND foreign, had from crooked flight school owners.

I truly hope everything works out for you guys, God Bless!

Sincerely,
av80r

 

[MFRskyknight]

In a nutshell: a flight school in Tennessee is nowadays allowed to make a student pay for their training in advance, however the money must be locked in a special account that is only available to that particular student. In other words, they cannot use money from “new” students to pay the bills of “old” students. From what I understand, Oklahoma does (or did) not have similar laws.

Yeah, I can understand how running a flight school is a quick way to go broke. But the info about that TN law is good to know. I hope Oklahoma gets something like that going in the wake of this.

If they haven't already, Florida would also do well to take note here.

MFR

 

[phantomdriver]

I heard that the airport management is going to close the tower at KOUN in the near future because of the air traffic drop off a lot. From what i heard it will be by the end of the year or just at the beginning of 2006.

 

[MFRskyknight]

I heard that the airport management is going to close the tower at KOUN in the near future because of the air traffic drop off a lot. From what i heard it will be by the end of the year or just at the beginning of 2006.

I'm sure there's a nice tie-in to the Airman story for the press once they get wind of this.

MFR

 

[phantomdriver]

Is there any new word about the law suit about airman?

 

[MFRskyknight]

Is there any new word about the law suit about airman?

Nope. Give it a few months.

MFR

 

[JonJohn82]

I heard that the airport management is going to close the tower at KOUN in the near future because of the air traffic drop off a lot. From what i heard it will be by the end of the year or just at the beginning of 2006.

Where'd you hear that? OU still operates in there and there is plenty of transient traffic.

 

[phantomdriver]

I heard it when i was at ozzies.