Airlines where Pilots Clean the Cabin

[seefive]

Being on the Street????? Won't feed your family???????

Has the idea of going to get a different job ever occurred to you?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Bottom line, look at the airlines that are succeeding and the ones that aren't.
I would much rather clean the cabin, when I can, and help get strollers if it meant my airline would save a few bucks. If the ENTIRE team is pitching in it can really make a difference in the airline's bottom line. You can argue all you want about it, but being on the street with your selfish pride intact won't feed your family and it won't save other airline pilot's jobs either.

This is it all wrapped up in one package. The question is, is this mentality acceptable? Perhaps. The Golden Boys at DAL and UAL are doing exactly the same in terms of massive pay cuts. They'd rather keep cutting their pay to keep their widebody jobs then have no job. The LCC guys would rather clean cabins then have no job. There maybe a point though in having to clean the cabin as a mandate or matter of policy rather than an act of good will by choice. It is interesting though how SWA is not the (a) target here...

One could argue that the DAL/UAL pilots are selling out the profession just like the pilot cleaners are.... The other question is are the pay cuts and cabin cleaning really necessary or are they more of a emotional response. "I have to do something to make this company survive/succeed/grow." (I am a pilot and I have to stay in control)

At my previous carrier management loved to [try to] motivate pilots and others to pitch in and help out. But it was never mandated, which made one wonder if it was really needed. The issue here was that we felt we were being taken for granted. Conned into doing extra work. When it comes down do it, is the business model predicated on pilots loading bags or folding seat belts? If it is, how is this performance measured? And why isn't every pilot doing it and why do some pilots do it and others get away with not doing it? Sometimes it just seems like management is squeezing free labor out of us. Especially since we did not have any performance based rewards.

Productivity is the key to success for any airline in todays and the furture industry. SWA and jB understand this.....

It is humorous how the pilot cleaners make out the non cleaners as impolite, rude, uncivil etc.....

Thoughts?

 

[B6Guy]

I've reached a new low

I guess I've reached a new low. As I walked down the jetway to jumpseat on a NWA flight tonight, I stopped and picked up a pile of papers cluttering the jetway floor and tossed them in a trash can. I guess I should be stripped of my stripes and drummed out of the pilot workforce.

I just don't understand the opposition to being considerate, helpfull and a team player. What is so demeaning??

 

[Bjammin]

Being on the Street????? Won't feed your family???????

Has the idea of going to get a different job ever occurred to you?

I guess I always could be a golf pro, or maybe open a day spa.

ALL THE AIRLINES THAT ARE HIRING HAVE A CULTURE THAT FOSTERS TEAMWORK AND THEY ARE HIRING BECAUSE THEY ARE MAKING MONEY!

 

[ivauir]

The notion that everyone is equal, the industry has changed, and so has the profession is absurd PC BS that allows management to dumb down the profession and gut the pay. If you are willing to accept it, well, enjoy the job. The profession that so many have fought for over the years is slipping away if not already gone. As someone else has said a number of times, this i s not your fathers airline. What complete PC BS to gut the pay.

Herb tosses peanuts and chats to the pax when he flies (this I've seen), I'll bet he's crossed seat belts and put the rubber gloves on too. Its not about mgt trying to "dumb you down". I only get paid in the air, so I consider it nothing more than enligtened self interest when I help with a turn.

 

[Purpledog]

Here's why this is a bad idea from a non-biased observer, my wife. Today we were flying back from a vacation and the pilot was helping out at the counter. Then walked us to the plane. When he got in the cockpit my wife elbowed me and said, "That was the guy taking the ticket, what's going on here, are you kidding me?" She was worried the entire flight b/c a pilot was doing something other than her perception of his duties and she wondered what else the airline might have cut back on as well. Did they have a ramper helping with maintenence? I'm all about helping out and I do, because we don't carry pax who have an expectation of what a pilot's duties are. We are all professionals and we need to act the role if we command the pay. Would you feel confident about your surgeon if he was scrubbing the crapper before your operation, didn't think so.

 

[B-atch]

....Exactly.. Todays airline CEOs are shaping our profession into the blue collar workers of tomorrow....and we are letting them DO IT TO US!!!!!

 

[usav8r]

The only thing for certain is that the industry is changing. Chaos has always ruled the airline industry, and if someone has found the right formula to make a profit don't knock it. You might just be their F/O one day. After spending 15 years at a major carrier who's management did not change with the times, I can see many problems with the current airline models. Change will happen, and those who cannot adapt will become extinct, just like the dinosaurs, FWIW...

 

[B-atch]

You actually think that by SQUEEZING labor the major airlines will again become profitable.....Not!!! Rizing operating costs will eventually catch up to everyone. Even SW and JB.. The whole business model needs to be re-invented. Transportation needs to become a by-product of the services provided by the airline. Today's airline business models have in essence remained unchanged since the days of the DC-3...Kind of like the internal combustion engine... A bunch of new hitech gizmos have been added through evolution but IT STILL BURNS FOSSILE FUEL!!

Airlines need to become creative on extracting revenue from passengers, while providing transportation. And I'm not talking selling BOX lunches.. New technologies need to be implemented were goods and services are SOLD to the pax. while on board.. Inflight gambling needs to be legalized for example... Computer outlets need to be installed and exploited to extract additional revenue.

Take for example Las Vegas... Vegas doesn't make money from selling ROOMS to patrons. They spent BILLIONS of dollars building fancy hotels to attract patrons and practically give the rooms away... A similar concept needs to be applied to the airline business if it is to regain profitability... Cleaning cabins, working for peanuts, and further degrading the profession will not guarantee LCC pilots a permanent job. It will just prolong it.

 

[CatYaaak]

"Demeaning the proffession"...."Lowering standards"....."Leads to lav cleaning as a job requirement"..."Management conspiracy"...."blah blah blah blah yada yada spew"......what a bunch of psuedo-rational garbage.

Time and duties permitting, if as a member of the CREW you won't lend a hand to the rest of YOUR CREW crossing seat belts or picking up newpapers to help get YOUR aircraft ready and in shape for the next group of pax, then it boils down to being nothing more than a lazy-a$$, prima donna pu$$y.

Most likely these are the same babies whining about "dehydration" on a 90 minute flight if the F/As don't bring them water every 15 minutes, moaning that jet cockpits are "loud", or crying that the uniform hat wreaks havoc on their hair-gel sculptures.

Friggin' wankers....go fly cargo where a crew consists of nothing more than the pilots and boxes don't care what the cabin looks like. You're so over-enamoured of your "airline pilot" status that you're the type wearing your uniform to the grocery store as well.

 

[Dogwood]

I'm happy to help get the airplane turned and on its way, but I am glad we do not do this at AirTran.

Now, if I see someone waiting in the jetway for a stroller and the rampers haven't made it up in a reasonable amount of time, I'll go down and see if I can grab it for them, especially if it looks like they have a close connection. Non-revving, hey, I'm happy to cross some belts on my out, and I always offer to grab some chow for the crew . . . . . but ya gotta draw the line somewhere.

If it is in the job description, there it is, and it wouldn't keep me from working there, but I am glad we don't do it.

Helping out in the cabin to promote a quick turn is a sign of good leadership. I don't believe JB actually requires the pilots to do it, but it is part of the company culture. To me it seems a good opportunity to interact with the flight attendants for a few minutes, and help out the operation at the same time.

In the job I just left, the company culture was the same. We didn't require it, but the passengers always took their trash with them, or at least put it in the trash can on the way out. I never asked them to do it, they just did it. It was part of the company culture that we're all in this together. That generally leads to successful companies.

Yes our profession has changed. Adjust, and move on.

 

[seefive]

The key for long term survival in this industry is having a good business plan and executing it. JetBlue has many advantages right now that will even out long term. Their labor costs will rise as their employees gain seniority, get older, and demand higher wages. It will happen if the company remains profitable.

 

[Spectre]

I don't mind helping clean our airplanes. Here at JB, we even have a program called "Blue Shadow" that allows us to cross these work barriers. I'll be throwing bags for a day with a ramper and then I'll take the same ramper for a ride in my cockpit for a day. This is how we keep a company "small" as we grow.

Wow, we actually remember names of coworkers here. We greet each other with handshakes and sometimes hugs and kisses (opposite sex hehe). How often do you see this occur at other airlines? Observe ours. It's not just a workplace, it's more like family. I hope you do the dishes at home or is this just your wife's job?

I know our customers observe our teamwork and they like what they see. People admire hard work ethics. It's not degrading. We constantly hear customers getting off the plane say, "This was the best flight ever!" "You guys are the greatest." "I'll never fly another airline!" Wow, I was an FO at NWA for 2 years and never heard such comments from deplaning passengers.

What a concept, you work hard and get rewarded for your work. Yeah, I've averaged 270 flights hours for the first 3 months this year. I'm on track to make 60K by the end of April...Hand me the gloves.

 

[SWA/FO]

"This was the best flight ever!" "You guys are the greatest." "I'll never fly another airline!"

Hey, I hear that all the time at my work. You think these same people are two timing us...cheating on us?

 

[B6Guy]

You Too?

SWA/FO I remember my first flight on SWA, how much fun it was and how I tried to use SWA whenever I could after that first experience.

The aura of teamwork flows throughtout a flight crew and the cabin, When the workforce is happy and working together as a team, it shows and the customers pick up on it. Resulting in repeat customers

I have no doubts that most of your customers have the same comments as ours. Same type of teamwork culture. Customers can feel the atmosphere of teamwork and cooperation. And to support this atmosphere and culture I am proud to go back and help pickup the cabin when I have time, I even reach under a seat to pick up headset wrappers and water bottles. Gee I feel so demeaned, I've lowered my standards to help my crewmembers !!

And Surprise!! We make money at it. What a concept.

B-atch I think you are better suited for that 'second-choice' career you mentioned than being a pilot. Please don't apply at JetBlue. You would just be more miserable than you already are.

 

[Webslinger]

Yeah, you are right, obviously nothing has changed. In November I saw it on the Jetblue website. And NOW I SAW IT FOR THE FIRST TIME WITH MY OWN EYES.

"CA1900" you are an xxxxxxxxx. You would probably enjoy cleaning the cabin like a little xxxxxx

But now I'll be taking three days off. So long, everybody

You give "good" airline pilots a bad name- what a premadona!

 

[wndshr]

I personally WILL NOT CLEAN OTHER PEOPLE'S $hiT!!!
If I knew that my flying carreer would come DOWN to this, I would have become a GARBAGE MAN. After all they make better money and enjoy better bennies...

dude...that is why you fly CARGO! duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[JD2003]

Chinaclipper...loved your post. I was a UAL bag smasher for 6 years. I remember cleaning the cabin on turns and the FAs and pilots would never help.

Occasionally you would get a Captain walk through and help cross belts. This was once in a blue moon and you just knew he was a good person and you remembered him for it.

I spent my time under the wing sweating gallons. The summer of 2000 comes to mind when UAL pilots cancelled 40% of our flights to send a message to management. It was horrible cleaning up after their mess everyday...I would rather have dumped the crapper than rebook and unload cancelled 757's.

Now, as a first officer, I make it a point to help with bags when I do my walkaround and help in the cabin when its not a quick turn...you see...I remember that one captain at UAL who helped us and I want to be a captain like him someday.

 

[AA717driver]

And the first pilot and FA that try to clean a plane on a stop where it is designated to be cleaned by rampers will have a grievance filed on them so fast it would make your head spin.

BTDT. Had IAM rampers yelling at me because it was their job. No matter that it took up until 15 min. before scheduled departure to do it with 10 people on board (half of whom were sitting in FC watching a movie).

Thanks but I'll put on the gloves and do it myself rather than endure the frustration of having the IAM do it for me. TC

 

[oldxfr8dog]

I personally WILL NOT CLEAN OTHER PEOPLE'S $hiT!!!
If I knew that my flying carreer would come DOWN to this, I would have become a GARBAGE MAN. After all they make better money and enjoy better bennies...

It's not too late, get that GARBAGE MAN app in!!!