Airline Training Academy out of business

[logolight]

I can say that there were a few success stories out of ATA. I know this because I was an instructor there and my student pilot who went through the entire program is now flying the CL-65 like myself, along with a few other of his class mates. There would have been many more success stories if the program wasn't run so poorly.



______________________________________

"Lights...CONTINUE...runway...LANDING"

 

[flydog]

Hey Bouyer. Point of fact I was in the military. If youre so hot to find out where I live PM me and I will be glad to give you directions you weasily little mook

I got what I want out of life the hard way not by buying my career from a snake oil salesman. And yes I paid for my tuition every semester too CatYaaak. I just didnt pay for all 4 YEARS AND THE ENTIRE DEGREE up front.

And that goes for all of you!

 

[jdog78]

Ignore flydog...he's only trying to antagonize....And he apparently thinks that the only right way to do something is his way.

I think a misconception is that Airline Training Academy students were buying a job, which is far from the truth. The only difference between ATA and schools such as FSI and Comair, etc., is that it was run by a disreputable family and the students were unfortunately taken for a ride. Most students were there to build time or get their instructor ratings...clearly legitimate pursuits. But no one, not even gulfstream students, deserve to have their dreams taken away from them. Many of these students may not be able to afford to pursue flying again in their lifetime and that breaks my heart...this was their one shot and now it's gone.

Flydog, these people you're flaming are fellow pilots and regardless of your beliefs about the "right" way to do things, you should be supportive and not kick a brother when he's down.

john

 

[Timebuilder]

Bouyer:

First, let me give you some internet advice. I don't want to put you down, or sound pedantic. Sentences start with capital letters, "I" gets capitalized, "u" is spelled y-o-u, and "discrase" is spelled "disgrace". Nothing personal, but I see a lot of younger people building some bad habits that can only hurt them later in life. I have two nieces and a nephew who do this on the net, and there is no good reason for it. You are very likely just as smart as they are, so don't sell yourself short. In fact, as a future aviator, you need to be in the habit of doing almost everything that you can correctly. Just some friendly advice.

Second, many posters here, my self included, have an outspoken and viseral reaction to the minority of pilots who attempt to move ahead very quickly by the act of spending a lot of money on "direct" programs. No doubt, many pilots work very hard in addition to spending money. Certainly some of the posters in this thread could be more tactful and gentle in their expression of their opposition to the big-money, guaranteed interview, PFT (some of them) programs. Does it make you a bad person because you went through an accellerated program? Certainly not. Do some people see this as a character flaw, the willingness to circumvent the traditional way of doing things? Many pilots feel that way. I, for instance, believe that instructing is the hands-down BEST way to learn aviation. To me, choosing the easy, faster, "direct" route over instructing is a symptom of our culture's appetite for instant gratification. Your results may vary, void where prohibited, yadda, yadda. But while some of the comments may be insentitive, there is a kernel of truth.

As a martial artist, I am the last person to land a blow when someone is on the mat and incapacitated. So it is with those who were recent students at ATA. Truly, you have my sympathy. Now, as the sting starts to subside, what have you learned? Not everyone in aviation has your best interest at heart. You have to really probe around to discover if a given school or air carrier is a place where to should place your money or your life. The observation that you have "gotten what you deserve" is certainly an expression of disdain, and is somewhat misplaced. Where is that kernel of truth? Here. We all make choices in life, some good, some not. It is up to each one of us, individually or acting together, to apply due diligence in our affairs. The Bible calls this being a "good steward" of your affairs. I don't agree that this is your just punishment for trying to get around instructing and move into a regional job ahead of others. You should have been treated fairly, and under the terms of your agreement. That's ethical treatment, and it may have been lacking here. Fraud and breach of contract are serious charges. A court will decide that, no doubt.

In the final analysis, we are ALL responsible for what we get. We lay those stepping stones every day as we choose our way along in life. Choosing to place your money with an outfit that has a poor reputation in the marketplace for a chance to bypass the traditional training regime is an example of that kind of choice, a choice that now you undoubtedly regret. I have had learning experiences like that myself, and those are some of the lessons I have learned best. This may be your own "best learned" lesson.

So while one man's comments may offend you, don't turn away from what you can gain out of this. In Judo, you don't really know the value of a throw until you are on the receiving end, and meet the floor with a "THUMP"!

Then, you get up, dust off your gi, and get ready for the next advance. Who will have the next point? Will it be you?

 

[T-Gates]

Inappropriate Comments....

Youre right jackass jetjay

Those arent the only ways to do it. But they are the only ethical, morally responsible, and honest ways to do it. You wont go to the Air Force and buy your way in for 50k and no one should be able to buy a regional airline job but according to you its just another means to an end.

What a great world this would be if only those with the deepest pockets were the surgeons, lawyers, and airline pilots. I certainly wouldnt want someone with the biggest Visa credit line in college to perform open heart surgery on me but your position is this is ok.

Working as a CFI, banner tower, crop dusting, arent the ONLY ways to do it but they are the ONLY way to do it while learning your profession instead of BUYING A JOB you whore!

You are way the hell out of line here. Calling someone who is meerly working on a private certificate a "whore" is seriously demented. Theese people at ATA are victims of unethical buisness practices. Nothing else. Your comments just show that you are an ignorant fool. None of theese people have done anything to affect you in your mighty Westwind. Go back into your shell pal. You are a shining example of people who have no place in the left seat of an aircraft. Remember one of the stipulations of holding an ATP? "Must be of good moral character" All you show is that you'd rather step on theese people when they are down rather than help them in a time of need. That dosen't sound like good moral character to me. I'd really like to see you make theese comments to someone's face. You feel comfortable hiding behind your screename crying foul. People were left HOMELESS by ATA's management. And all you want to do is call them a whore and shun them for trying to get into a career that they love.

To ATA students: The best of luck to you, I know alot of schools are offering discounts and financial help to those of you affected by this.

--03M

 

[Bouyer]

thanks

Time Builder

Thanks for the teaching

 

[Timebuilder]

You are very welcome.

I spoke with the governor's (Jeb Bush) aide the other day, and this will not go by unnoticed.

One of the remedies in some cases like this is siezure of assets. I'm hoping that can be worked out, and the students may be made whole, or at least partially so.

Good luck to you.

 

[Bouyer]

We have been e-mailing the govenor so maybe that will help
I heard thru the grapevine that it has made its presence known in Washington

 

[flydog]

These people were not MERELY working on their private certificate. They were paying a large sum of money up front to someone that promised to provide them with an instant career in aviation by bypassing the process that makes professional pilots experienced aviators instead of just people that bought a license to fly a plane. No different from PFT except that ATA had contractual arrangements with airlines rather than the students paying the airline directly.

A whore is a whore is a whore no matter how shes dressed up and wether she works at Gulfstream, got her ATP at ATA, or paid for a Metro FO job at Eagle Aviation.

 

[CatYaaak]

...And yes I paid for my tuition every semester too CatYaaak. I just didnt pay for all 4 YEARS AND THE ENTIRE DEGREE up front.

Ah, I see. So in other words you aren't a $3, back-alley whore. Nope, not you...you're a $5 back-alley whore instead.

Well Flydog, you've certainly confirmed by example that the "P" in the word "Pilot" does indeed stand for "Prostitute".

 

[T-Gates]

These people were not MERELY working on their private certificate. They were paying a large sum of money up front to someone that promised to provide them with an instant career in aviation by bypassing the process that makes professional pilots experienced aviators instead of just people that bought a license to fly a plane. No different from PFT except that ATA had contractual arrangements with airlines rather than the students paying the airline directly.

A whore is a whore is a whore no matter how shes dressed up and wether she works at Gulfstream, got her ATP at ATA, or paid for a Metro FO job at Eagle Aviation.

So basically anyone who does differently than you did, whored them self out. I see. Some of theese guys are working on thier CFI, II, and MEI. You just made a gross generalization about a whole pilot group. Anyone who goes to a school who trains pilots and says that you "may" get an airline job is a whore. You are demented.

So to anyone who wants to be a disgruntled Westwind captain who has nothing better to do than call a bunch of people whores who just got gyped out of a collective Millions of dollars and rant and rave about crap all day just PM flydog. He'll tell you how to get on that "Fast Track".

--03M

 

[Robert Cooper]

The ATA situation seems to be similar to The Academy in Lakeland not too long ago. Students came back from (I believe) Winter break to find the school had closed down. Yet anither "pilot mill" goes belly-up and leaves the hopes and aspirations of many students grounded.

A story told far too often.

My name is Robert Cooper. My wife and I own National Aviation at St. Pete-Clearwater Int'l (PIE). National is one of the oldest flight schools in Florida, having been around since 1968, and one of the first Cessna Pilot Centers. We also own the FBO where National is located: Air-1 Aircraft, the newest FBO in the Tampa Bay area. Air-1 houses Challengers, Lear 60's, Citations, Saberliners, and is regularly visited by G-V's, Global's, Falcon's and other corporate aircraft.

We became a Part 141 school in Sept. 2001. Our Part 141 certificate includes Pvt., Inst., Comm. and Multi. We have had many, many students go through our program. Many stay with us after they earn their CFI; others have gone on to the Regionals and beyond.

We were able to help some of The Academy students, and we may be able to help the ATA students as well.

We don't offer "guaranteed" jobs, marketing hype, etc. You don't wear epaulets and cheap shirts and pants while training. We don't blast you through a program on a strict timetable. We do not make impossible, overhyped promises. You won't see expensive, slick magazine ads. You get what you pay for, and nothing less. And we have a sense of humor.

We DO promise you this: When you leave National Aviation, you will be a competant, safe, and confident pilot. You will have trained in well-maintained, newer Cessna, Piper Seminole, and AMD aircraft. After that, the future is up to you. But you WILL go to job interviews with the secure knowledge that your ability will be easily noticed by the interviewee.

If I can be of service to any of you, please contact David Cunningham, Director of Operations, or Tom Jamin, Chief Flight Instructor at 727-531-3545. Or e-mail: [email protected]. Our website is www.national-aviation.com.

It is sad to hear of these situations and the human tragedy they cause. We would like to do a little something to help.

Robert Cooper, President
National Aviation Holdings, Inc.
e-addy: [email protected]

 

[Timebuilder]

Thank you for stepping up to the plate, Robert. I hope you can help some of these kids.

The next time I'm at PIE, I'll try and stop by to say hello.

 

[flydog]

Just to make it official

If you go National Aviation you wont be a whore

And 9103M keep making broad generalizations about something I was very specific about. Those that PFT and go to places like ATA for the get rich quick-pro pilot in 3 month programs make up a very small percentage of the pilot population. Those that did it "like I did" as you put it is over 90% of us that worked for our ratings and learned what it is to be a professional pilot through hard work and experience not through a 90 day crash course in how to wear epaulets.

People that graduate from ATA and go on to the airlines after never having flown a place 6 months earlier are a piss poor substitute for a seasoned professional pilot whose job they took solely because they had the means to write a $50,000 check

And just to clarify I was referring to those that paid in excess of 50k for a zero through hero airline program not those that attended ATA for specific ratings.

 

[Bouyer]

Flydog the moron has figured it out his way is the only way
yea for the jacka$$