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Airline Training Academy out of business

  • Thread starter Thread starter EMcx2
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I second what FL000 said. Caveat emptor.

"You get what you pay for. Buyer beware"


Also, I have a vacation home in Cocoa Beach that is vacant right now untill April 5th. If ATA guys and gals need a place to stay for awhile while they sort things out, PM me. It's nothing spectacular, but it's free.
 
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How did they go out of business, for god's sake? They must've poured all that money somewhere. Discover Air is probably a good bet. You could go to Comair, FSI, or Riddle for less than that price. Why in the world would anyone choose ATA?

Very good questions, however when you are young, nieve, and being promised the world as a student pilot sometimes people can make mistakes and choices that they will only regret down the line. It is just very hard to imagine how in the world they were financially in trouble when they got that astronomical sum of money ALL up front.

How many students lost the majority of the money.?? I heard somewhere that most of the students were close to being all done with training when this happened.?

3 5 0
 
Hind sight being 20/20, I would have gone anywhere but there. That being said, the only reason I went there was on the urging of 2 of my friends at ASA. They told me about this school where all these low time pilots were coming from. They said they were hiring 20 or 30 a month and said I better hurry up and get there, so I did. I had 300 hours and a pvt multi/single at the time. It sounded really great, lesson learned: If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is. I should have looked into other routes, I could have gotten a CFI, I would have been less broke! Ya'll know how it goes though: shoulda, woulda, coulda's
 
Tryin' to help

Hey Ya'll,

I'm so sorry for all of the ATA students. Not a good way to start a flying career. I hate this kind of stuff. If you guys/gals are going to use as much ammo to take this group of j@ckasses out, here is some more. These people have fun on there own time taking out people like this.


Corporate Accountability Project

An organization of activists dedicated to –you guessed it– holding corporations accountable for their actions. Learn "how to overthrow corporate rule in five not-so-easy steps" at

http://www.corporations.org.
1434 Elbridge St.
Philadelphia, PA 19149
Tel: (215) 743-4884
E-mail: [email protected]


CorpWatch

The San Francisco–based group counters corporate-led globalization through education and activism. Grassroots mobilization is underway at

http://www.corpwatch.org.
PO Box 29344
San Francisco, CA 94129
Tel: (415) 561-6568
E-mail: [email protected]


Democracy Rising

Founded by Ralph Nader in 2001, Democracy Rising is a nonprofit grassroots group advocating corporate reform. Empower yourself at

http://www.democracyrising.com.
320 SW Stark Street, Suite 202
Portland, OR 97204
Tel: (202) 465-2764
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Public Citizen

Founded by Ralph Nader in 1971, Public Citizen fights for consumer justice and government and corporate accountability. The umbrella organization sponsors six watchdog groups, including Congress Watch and Trade Watch. Take action at

http://www.citizen.org.
1600 20th St., NW
Washington, D.C. 20009
Tel: (202) 588-1000
E-mail: [email protected]


I wouldn't want Ralph N. houndin' me.

Ya'll take care and good luck,

SR
 
This should serve as a wake up call to those fickle minded whores that think they can just plop down 50k and become a professional pilot. There are no shortcuts in life. In my opinion you all deserve what you get.

No one in their right mind should fork over money up front for ANYTHING and that includes an education if what ATA provided can be called that.

Regardless of my personal opinion I dont see how what ATA did was illegal. It certainly was IMMORAL and UNETHICAL but thats not againist the law and neither is filing for bankruptcy.

If that was the case Frank Lorenzo, Al Dunlap, and a lot of other corporate has beens that screwed both employees and customers would all be in jail.
 
flydog wrote
This should serve as a wake up call to those fickle minded whores that think they can just plop down 50k and become a professional pilot. There are no shortcuts in life. In my opinion you all deserve what you get.
____________________________________________________



You are an absolute a$$clown, I cannot believe someone could be this heartless. Alot of these people have lost everything. And for you to say they deserve it is probably lowest, cheapest shot I've ever seen on this board. There's more than one way to achieve a goal. Just because someone didn't do your way doesn't make them stupid. Everyone has their prefered way, doesn't make it the only way. Being a CFI isn't the ONLY way. The military isn't the ONLY way. Dusting crops isn't the ONLY way. Flying patrol isn't the ONLY way. Ferrying planes isn't the ONLY way. The CAP isn't the ONLY way. Towing banners isn't the ONLY way. The ONLY way to achieve one's goals is by ANY method that DOESN'T cost someone else a job. If someone feels that giving someone like FSI, Comair or some other school their money will advance thier career futures, than I wish them the best. I do, however, hope people think hard when considering a school. Flydog, you sir, seem to be one bitter old bastard!!!!!!
 
Originally posted by flydog
This should serve as a wake up call to those fickle minded whores that think they can just plop down 50k and become a professional pilot. There are no shortcuts in life. In my opinion you all deserve what you get.

First of all, I would like to express my gratitude towards those members of this board that have assisted the former ATA students with emotional, as well as informational, support . This is exactly what these aspiring pilots need at this time. I do however question how calling the victims of this situation whores helps in any way whatsoever. I recognize the right for flydog to express his opinion, but I wholeheartedly disagree with the statement above.

ATA students did not just plop down 50k and become professional pilots. They worked (or wanted to work in the case of the current students) for every rating they received. They learned from some great instructors (not management) about what it means to be a good pilot and what it takes to become a professional pilot. Oh, and they got the chance to interview with a regional (who was under no obligation whatsoever to hire them.)

I was one of these students and the friends and acquaintances I met there were mostly hardworking people who decided to change careers and had either made some money at their previous jobs or built the credit they needed to secure the educational loans. It was not a short cut, but an alternate path. We took the check rides, we built multi-engine time and incorporated CRM into our flying life. I still want to be a CFI and am planning to return to GA flying for this very soon.

As far as the students getting what they deserved, I guess the enron folks who depended on that company to support them into their golden years got what they deserved too, huh? (TIC)

In hindsight, I do agree with flydog on one respect -- the pay up front thing. I won't do that again if I can help it. After my loan checks cleared, I lived in constant fear that the very thing that happened to the current students would happen to me. I worked through this fear by trying to complete the program as quickly as possible.

Again, I would like to send my regrets to the ATA students affected by this horrible situation. And I hope it is settled in a manner that will allow them to continue pursuing their flying career.

Tailwinds,
AT
 
Youre right jackass jetjay

Those arent the only ways to do it. But they are the only ethical, morally responsible, and honest ways to do it. You wont go to the Air Force and buy your way in for 50k and no one should be able to buy a regional airline job but according to you its just another means to an end.

What a great world this would be if only those with the deepest pockets were the surgeons, lawyers, and airline pilots. I certainly wouldnt want someone with the biggest Visa credit line in college to perform open heart surgery on me but your position is this is ok.

Working as a CFI, banner tower, crop dusting, arent the ONLY ways to do it but they are the ONLY way to do it while learning your profession instead of BUYING A JOB you whore!
 
flydog,

F--K you, you moron, you obviously didn't read the part where I said "by ANY method that DOESN'T cost someone else a job". I never once told ANYONE to go to Gulfstream now did I? Not one single student at ATA that did get a job, bought it. They WERE NOT gaurenteed a job. They only got an interview, not all were hired! I don't know where you get the idea that people simply paid 50K and were handed their ratings to them. Ratings had to be earned just like any where else. ATA didn't have in school examiners they used DPE's out of Orlando FSDO. The same ratings that would have been earned at any local FBO, except the fact that twice the money was spent. AND YOU CAN SHOVE THIS WHORE **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** UP YOUR ASS!!!! I'm out washing jets and cleaning hangers everyday scraping the money to get my CFI.
 
flydog said:
This should serve as a wake up call to those fickle minded whores that think they can just plop down 50k and become a professional pilot. There are no shortcuts in life. In my opinion you all deserve what you get.

No one in their right mind should fork over money up front for ANYTHING and that includes an education if what ATA provided can be called that.

Well, I forked over money up front prior to every semester of education at UND, where I also earned some of my ratings. I guess that makes me a crazy, "fickle-minded whore" also. Imagine, me thinking that paying for those ratings and degree would help me become a professional pilot. I also busted my butt working in order to be able to afford to do that.

Where is the so-called "shortcut" you accuse these students of taking? My understanding is that ATA was a flight school where one earned ratings, not an ab initio pay-for-a-guaranteed job program. So what if the school had some kind of networking agreement connections at ASA? Even back in the 80s many commuter airlines etc. looked at UND grads (like a lot of other schools), and even if most of those connections weren't "official" at that time, they were very real. This issue is about fraud; students/customers being bilked out of money for TRAINING (not a job) they were promised and will never receive, by people who most likely knew they couldn't deliver at the time they took the money. It's not a pay-for-a-job debate, as much as you'd like it to be.

Flydog, didn't you pay for your initial training and ratings? If so, then that makes you just as much of a whore as any student at that flight school.
 
fly dog ????

you have to be one of the most ignorant people i have ever seen
and to think that you are a pilot, you are a discrase i need to find out where u live
 
idiot

your such an idiot i see you didnt go into the military what did some feel sorry for u and just give those ratings to you or did you pay for them

I cant belive some people are such self minded morons and are pissed off at the world because he not happy in life get a life you jackA$$
 
Bouyer and CatYaaak,

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels like flydog is a moron. This guy really pisses me off. I have never been more bothered by any other post on this board. These students have had their whole lives turned upside down with no warning. They need positive ideas, guidance and support from other members of this board. What they don't need is blasting from ignorant people that don't have a clue what they're talking about.
 
he is just pissed off at the world because he didnt get what he wanted out of life

how would u like to have him in the cockpit with u ( wow )
 
I can say that there were a few success stories out of ATA. I know this because I was an instructor there and my student pilot who went through the entire program is now flying the CL-65 like myself, along with a few other of his class mates. There would have been many more success stories if the program wasn't run so poorly.



______________________________________

"Lights...CONTINUE...runway...LANDING"
 
Hey Bouyer. Point of fact I was in the military. If youre so hot to find out where I live PM me and I will be glad to give you directions you weasily little mook

I got what I want out of life the hard way not by buying my career from a snake oil salesman. And yes I paid for my tuition every semester too CatYaaak. I just didnt pay for all 4 YEARS AND THE ENTIRE DEGREE up front.

And that goes for all of you!
 
Ignore flydog...he's only trying to antagonize....And he apparently thinks that the only right way to do something is his way.

I think a misconception is that Airline Training Academy students were buying a job, which is far from the truth. The only difference between ATA and schools such as FSI and Comair, etc., is that it was run by a disreputable family and the students were unfortunately taken for a ride. Most students were there to build time or get their instructor ratings...clearly legitimate pursuits. But no one, not even gulfstream students, deserve to have their dreams taken away from them. Many of these students may not be able to afford to pursue flying again in their lifetime and that breaks my heart...this was their one shot and now it's gone.

Flydog, these people you're flaming are fellow pilots and regardless of your beliefs about the "right" way to do things, you should be supportive and not kick a brother when he's down.

john
 
Bouyer:

First, let me give you some internet advice. I don't want to put you down, or sound pedantic. Sentences start with capital letters, "I" gets capitalized, "u" is spelled y-o-u, and "discrase" is spelled "disgrace". Nothing personal, but I see a lot of younger people building some bad habits that can only hurt them later in life. I have two nieces and a nephew who do this on the net, and there is no good reason for it. You are very likely just as smart as they are, so don't sell yourself short. In fact, as a future aviator, you need to be in the habit of doing almost everything that you can correctly. Just some friendly advice.

Second, many posters here, my self included, have an outspoken and viseral reaction to the minority of pilots who attempt to move ahead very quickly by the act of spending a lot of money on "direct" programs. No doubt, many pilots work very hard in addition to spending money. Certainly some of the posters in this thread could be more tactful and gentle in their expression of their opposition to the big-money, guaranteed interview, PFT (some of them) programs. Does it make you a bad person because you went through an accellerated program? Certainly not. Do some people see this as a character flaw, the willingness to circumvent the traditional way of doing things? Many pilots feel that way. I, for instance, believe that instructing is the hands-down BEST way to learn aviation. To me, choosing the easy, faster, "direct" route over instructing is a symptom of our culture's appetite for instant gratification. Your results may vary, void where prohibited, yadda, yadda. But while some of the comments may be insentitive, there is a kernel of truth.

As a martial artist, I am the last person to land a blow when someone is on the mat and incapacitated. So it is with those who were recent students at ATA. Truly, you have my sympathy. Now, as the sting starts to subside, what have you learned? Not everyone in aviation has your best interest at heart. You have to really probe around to discover if a given school or air carrier is a place where to should place your money or your life. The observation that you have "gotten what you deserve" is certainly an expression of disdain, and is somewhat misplaced. Where is that kernel of truth? Here. We all make choices in life, some good, some not. It is up to each one of us, individually or acting together, to apply due diligence in our affairs. The Bible calls this being a "good steward" of your affairs. I don't agree that this is your just punishment for trying to get around instructing and move into a regional job ahead of others. You should have been treated fairly, and under the terms of your agreement. That's ethical treatment, and it may have been lacking here. Fraud and breach of contract are serious charges. A court will decide that, no doubt.

In the final analysis, we are ALL responsible for what we get. We lay those stepping stones every day as we choose our way along in life. Choosing to place your money with an outfit that has a poor reputation in the marketplace for a chance to bypass the traditional training regime is an example of that kind of choice, a choice that now you undoubtedly regret. I have had learning experiences like that myself, and those are some of the lessons I have learned best. This may be your own "best learned" lesson.

So while one man's comments may offend you, don't turn away from what you can gain out of this. In Judo, you don't really know the value of a throw until you are on the receiving end, and meet the floor with a "THUMP"!

Then, you get up, dust off your gi, and get ready for the next advance. Who will have the next point? Will it be you?
 
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Inappropriate Comments....

flydog said:
Youre right jackass jetjay

Those arent the only ways to do it. But they are the only ethical, morally responsible, and honest ways to do it. You wont go to the Air Force and buy your way in for 50k and no one should be able to buy a regional airline job but according to you its just another means to an end.

What a great world this would be if only those with the deepest pockets were the surgeons, lawyers, and airline pilots. I certainly wouldnt want someone with the biggest Visa credit line in college to perform open heart surgery on me but your position is this is ok.

Working as a CFI, banner tower, crop dusting, arent the ONLY ways to do it but they are the ONLY way to do it while learning your profession instead of BUYING A JOB you whore!


You are way the hell out of line here. Calling someone who is meerly working on a private certificate a "whore" is seriously demented. Theese people at ATA are victims of unethical buisness practices. Nothing else. Your comments just show that you are an ignorant fool. None of theese people have done anything to affect you in your mighty Westwind. Go back into your shell pal. You are a shining example of people who have no place in the left seat of an aircraft. Remember one of the stipulations of holding an ATP? "Must be of good moral character" All you show is that you'd rather step on theese people when they are down rather than help them in a time of need. That dosen't sound like good moral character to me. I'd really like to see you make theese comments to someone's face. You feel comfortable hiding behind your screename crying foul. People were left HOMELESS by ATA's management. And all you want to do is call them a whore and shun them for trying to get into a career that they love.

To ATA students: The best of luck to you, I know alot of schools are offering discounts and financial help to those of you affected by this.

--03M
 

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