Airline Training Academy out of business

[CatYaaak]

This should serve as a wake up call to those fickle minded whores that think they can just plop down 50k and become a professional pilot. There are no shortcuts in life. In my opinion you all deserve what you get.

No one in their right mind should fork over money up front for ANYTHING and that includes an education if what ATA provided can be called that.

Well, I forked over money up front prior to every semester of education at UND, where I also earned some of my ratings. I guess that makes me a crazy, "fickle-minded whore" also. Imagine, me thinking that paying for those ratings and degree would help me become a professional pilot. I also busted my butt working in order to be able to afford to do that.

Where is the so-called "shortcut" you accuse these students of taking? My understanding is that ATA was a flight school where one earned ratings, not an ab initio pay-for-a-guaranteed job program. So what if the school had some kind of networking agreement connections at ASA? Even back in the 80s many commuter airlines etc. looked at UND grads (like a lot of other schools), and even if most of those connections weren't "official" at that time, they were very real. This issue is about fraud; students/customers being bilked out of money for TRAINING (not a job) they were promised and will never receive, by people who most likely knew they couldn't deliver at the time they took the money. It's not a pay-for-a-job debate, as much as you'd like it to be.

Flydog, didn't you pay for your initial training and ratings? If so, then that makes you just as much of a whore as any student at that flight school.

 

[Bouyer]

fly dog ????

you have to be one of the most ignorant people i have ever seen
and to think that you are a pilot, you are a discrase i need to find out where u live

 

[Bouyer]

idiot

your such an idiot i see you didnt go into the military what did some feel sorry for u and just give those ratings to you or did you pay for them

I cant belive some people are such self minded morons and are pissed off at the world because he not happy in life get a life you jackA$$

 

[jetpilotjay]

Bouyer and CatYaaak,

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels like flydog is a moron. This guy really pisses me off. I have never been more bothered by any other post on this board. These students have had their whole lives turned upside down with no warning. They need positive ideas, guidance and support from other members of this board. What they don't need is blasting from ignorant people that don't have a clue what they're talking about.

 

[Bouyer]

he is just pissed off at the world because he didnt get what he wanted out of life

how would u like to have him in the cockpit with u ( wow )

 

[logolight]

I can say that there were a few success stories out of ATA. I know this because I was an instructor there and my student pilot who went through the entire program is now flying the CL-65 like myself, along with a few other of his class mates. There would have been many more success stories if the program wasn't run so poorly.



______________________________________

"Lights...CONTINUE...runway...LANDING"

 

[flydog]

Hey Bouyer. Point of fact I was in the military. If youre so hot to find out where I live PM me and I will be glad to give you directions you weasily little mook

I got what I want out of life the hard way not by buying my career from a snake oil salesman. And yes I paid for my tuition every semester too CatYaaak. I just didnt pay for all 4 YEARS AND THE ENTIRE DEGREE up front.

And that goes for all of you!

 

[jdog78]

Ignore flydog...he's only trying to antagonize....And he apparently thinks that the only right way to do something is his way.

I think a misconception is that Airline Training Academy students were buying a job, which is far from the truth. The only difference between ATA and schools such as FSI and Comair, etc., is that it was run by a disreputable family and the students were unfortunately taken for a ride. Most students were there to build time or get their instructor ratings...clearly legitimate pursuits. But no one, not even gulfstream students, deserve to have their dreams taken away from them. Many of these students may not be able to afford to pursue flying again in their lifetime and that breaks my heart...this was their one shot and now it's gone.

Flydog, these people you're flaming are fellow pilots and regardless of your beliefs about the "right" way to do things, you should be supportive and not kick a brother when he's down.

john

 

[Timebuilder]

Bouyer:

First, let me give you some internet advice. I don't want to put you down, or sound pedantic. Sentences start with capital letters, "I" gets capitalized, "u" is spelled y-o-u, and "discrase" is spelled "disgrace". Nothing personal, but I see a lot of younger people building some bad habits that can only hurt them later in life. I have two nieces and a nephew who do this on the net, and there is no good reason for it. You are very likely just as smart as they are, so don't sell yourself short. In fact, as a future aviator, you need to be in the habit of doing almost everything that you can correctly. Just some friendly advice.

Second, many posters here, my self included, have an outspoken and viseral reaction to the minority of pilots who attempt to move ahead very quickly by the act of spending a lot of money on "direct" programs. No doubt, many pilots work very hard in addition to spending money. Certainly some of the posters in this thread could be more tactful and gentle in their expression of their opposition to the big-money, guaranteed interview, PFT (some of them) programs. Does it make you a bad person because you went through an accellerated program? Certainly not. Do some people see this as a character flaw, the willingness to circumvent the traditional way of doing things? Many pilots feel that way. I, for instance, believe that instructing is the hands-down BEST way to learn aviation. To me, choosing the easy, faster, "direct" route over instructing is a symptom of our culture's appetite for instant gratification. Your results may vary, void where prohibited, yadda, yadda. But while some of the comments may be insentitive, there is a kernel of truth.

As a martial artist, I am the last person to land a blow when someone is on the mat and incapacitated. So it is with those who were recent students at ATA. Truly, you have my sympathy. Now, as the sting starts to subside, what have you learned? Not everyone in aviation has your best interest at heart. You have to really probe around to discover if a given school or air carrier is a place where to should place your money or your life. The observation that you have "gotten what you deserve" is certainly an expression of disdain, and is somewhat misplaced. Where is that kernel of truth? Here. We all make choices in life, some good, some not. It is up to each one of us, individually or acting together, to apply due diligence in our affairs. The Bible calls this being a "good steward" of your affairs. I don't agree that this is your just punishment for trying to get around instructing and move into a regional job ahead of others. You should have been treated fairly, and under the terms of your agreement. That's ethical treatment, and it may have been lacking here. Fraud and breach of contract are serious charges. A court will decide that, no doubt.

In the final analysis, we are ALL responsible for what we get. We lay those stepping stones every day as we choose our way along in life. Choosing to place your money with an outfit that has a poor reputation in the marketplace for a chance to bypass the traditional training regime is an example of that kind of choice, a choice that now you undoubtedly regret. I have had learning experiences like that myself, and those are some of the lessons I have learned best. This may be your own "best learned" lesson.

So while one man's comments may offend you, don't turn away from what you can gain out of this. In Judo, you don't really know the value of a throw until you are on the receiving end, and meet the floor with a "THUMP"!

Then, you get up, dust off your gi, and get ready for the next advance. Who will have the next point? Will it be you?

 

[T-Gates]

Inappropriate Comments....

Youre right jackass jetjay

Those arent the only ways to do it. But they are the only ethical, morally responsible, and honest ways to do it. You wont go to the Air Force and buy your way in for 50k and no one should be able to buy a regional airline job but according to you its just another means to an end.

What a great world this would be if only those with the deepest pockets were the surgeons, lawyers, and airline pilots. I certainly wouldnt want someone with the biggest Visa credit line in college to perform open heart surgery on me but your position is this is ok.

Working as a CFI, banner tower, crop dusting, arent the ONLY ways to do it but they are the ONLY way to do it while learning your profession instead of BUYING A JOB you whore!

You are way the hell out of line here. Calling someone who is meerly working on a private certificate a "whore" is seriously demented. Theese people at ATA are victims of unethical buisness practices. Nothing else. Your comments just show that you are an ignorant fool. None of theese people have done anything to affect you in your mighty Westwind. Go back into your shell pal. You are a shining example of people who have no place in the left seat of an aircraft. Remember one of the stipulations of holding an ATP? "Must be of good moral character" All you show is that you'd rather step on theese people when they are down rather than help them in a time of need. That dosen't sound like good moral character to me. I'd really like to see you make theese comments to someone's face. You feel comfortable hiding behind your screename crying foul. People were left HOMELESS by ATA's management. And all you want to do is call them a whore and shun them for trying to get into a career that they love.

To ATA students: The best of luck to you, I know alot of schools are offering discounts and financial help to those of you affected by this.

--03M