Airbus trepidation... convince me otherwise!

[scoreboardII]

He blamed everything on the airplane. Unbelievably, he was former Navy F-8 pilot. Knowing how to fly was not
his problem; accepting his own refusal to learn/know the FMAs was. .

I was wondering how long it would take to blame the military.

 

[blackjack]

Some sad airbus outcomes have resulted from pilots not resorting to "old school" and pushing the throttles all the way forward. I was taught the airbus way of setting managed speed etc. and think it can lure you into not being as aware of what is going on with power as a pilot should be. I often take over with vert speed at 1000 above/below just to stay in the piloting game, hate the open descent, level off, 1980s era computers get 10 knots slow then realize full power is needed. Racing up/down to level off often triggers TCAS warnings needlessly anyway.

 

[Hpilot]

I've only flown Boeing, but I'll pass on what a chief pilot said when I complained about the prospect of going to the Bus. He said, "once I get you in the Bus you'll never want to fly a Boeing again." I have a lot of respect for him and hope he's right.

 

[J32driver]

This doesn't happen in the Airbus I fly, not in flight at least.

It has been 4 years since I was on the airplane, I may not remember correctly on the cursor. I thought it was there in flight, but you just never noticed it because it never moved. Sorry If I gave bad info.

 

[aewanabe]

Which if he had full manual control of the motors he would have flown back around and landed it on the runway.

Negative. Read the accident report; those motors were so destroyed that all he would have accomplished with a cable to the FCU would have been cooking the hot sections with little to no increase in thrust.

AA73, I've got a year on the jet after 8 years of flying various Embraers. I promise once you get used to it, you'll love it. Do you feel like a pilot as much without large moving parts and force feedback? No, honestly. IMHO however, it's still tons of fun to turn off AP/FD and the authothrust and point it where you want it to go. Did that today coming down the CAMRN arrival on a beautiful breezy day at JFK and had a blast driving it all the way to 31R like an old Baron. (For my fellow Blue peeps, I had one of the rare Captains whom encourages that sort of thing rather than cringing at it ). Also, I do much better controlling the balloon when Flaps 2 comes out than Fifi does!

I noticed on the "other board" that you asked about trim with no rocker switch, and I don't think anyone got around to answering that. Pitch trim is with a nice wheel right next to the thrust levers. You'll have to be in a seriously degraded flight computer mode to use that anywhere other than the sim, or setting the stab before takeoff.

 

[Turtle21]

To explain the Airbus A320 Habsheim (A320 into the woods) accident, again:

The accident airplane was in NORMAL flight control law. NORMAl law is "normal;" there's no flight control law
"better" than NORMAL - no super-normal, no mega-normal, etc. In NORMAL law, you have three (3) axis control
and the following flight envelope protections: - load factor limitation; - pitch attitude protection; - high angle of
attack protection; - high speed protection, and - bank angle protection.

NORMAL law has both a Ground and a Flight mode. I'll skip the Ground mode discussion, but the Flight mode
is active from lift-off until Flare mode engages during landing at 50 feet RA.

NORMAL law - Pitch: The Normal flight mode is load factor demand law with automatic (pitch) trim and full
flight envelope protection that maintains a 1g load with the sidestick at neutral and the wings level. When using
the sidestick, the elevator and stabilizer trim achieve a load factor proportional to sidestick deflection. Pitch trim
is automatic with or without the autopilot engaged. (And the elevator trim wheel DOES move as the stab trims - my
comment!)

Automatic pitch trim is inhibited under the following conditions:

- Radio altitude (RA) is below 50 ft (100 ft with autopilot engaged)
- Load factor less than 0.5g
- High speed/Mach protection is active
- 33 deg bank exceeded
- Load factor greater than +1.25g (nose up trim inhibited)
- During manual trim (obviously!)

Load Factor Limitation:
- Flaps Retracted: +2.5g to -1.0g
-Flaps Extended: +2.0g to 0.0g

Pitch Attitude Protection:
The airplane's pitch attitude is protected, as follows:
- 30 deg nose up with Flaps (position) 0 to (position) 3,
**********progeressively reduced to 25 deg at low speed;
- 25 deg nose up with Flaps Full (progessively reduced to
**********20 deg at low speed;
- 15 deg nose down

The flight director bars are removed when pitch exceeds 25 deg up
or 13 deg down.

High Angle of Attack Protection: (In this discussion, I will substitute the symbol "@"
in place of the Greek letter for "alpha," which my keyboard doesn't have - or I can't find.

The alpha protection provided by Normal Law comprises three (3) angle of attack
functions. They are: (1) alpha protection (@ prot) alpha floor (@ floor) and alpha maximum
(@ max). The associated V speeds, V@ prot. V@ floor and V@ max vary with airplane weight
and configuration.

In pitch normal law, the elevator control changes from normal mode to a protection mode when the
angle of attack is greater than @ prot. When this occurs, the autopilot disconnects, the speed brakes
retract and the angle of attack is proportional to sidestick deflection. In the @ prot range, from @ prot*****
to @ max, the side stick demands an angle of attack directly; however, @ max cannot be exceeded even
if the sidestick is pulled and held fully back against the mechanical stop. If the sidestick is released,
the angle of attack returns to and maintains @ prot. This function, which provides protection against
stall and windshear has priority overcall other protections. On take-off, @ prot is equal to @ max for
5 seconds. If angle of attack protection is active, the sidestick must be pushed forward to return to the
normal mode.

The @ floor protection, which occurs at a predetermined angle of attack between @ prot and @ max, engages
the autothrottle system. TO/GA thrust is provided regardless of throttle position. The @ floor function *****is NOT
available in the landing configuration below 100 ft RA! (Any guesses why??????????)

NOTE: Alpha Floor is ONLY available in NORMAL (flight control) Law.

I provide the above explanations/descriptions so that you can't accuse me of editing out important information
about the Airbus' Normal flight control laws. *****)

CAUTION: Alpha Floor protection is only available in NORMAL Law.

A Low Energy Warnibg is triggered during deceleration before Alpha Floor ir reached. (The delays between Low
Energy Warning and Alpha Floor activation depends on deceleration rate.) "SPEED, SPEED, SPEED"
is repeated every 5 seconds to indicate airplane energy is lower than a threshold under which to recover a positive
flight path angle though pitch control; THRUST must be INCREASED! The low energy warning is computed by the
FACs (Flight Augmentation Computers), based on airplane configuration Flaps [position] (2, 3 or Full), airspeed
deceleration rate and flight path angle.

The Low Energy Warning is inhibited:
- When TO/GA is selected
- Below 100 ft RA and above 2,000 ft RA
- When Alpha Floor or a GPWS alert is triggered
- In ALTERNATE or DIRECT law
- If both RAs are failed
- At Flaps 1 or UP

- - -*****

The Captain of the Habsheim accident airplane: 1) did not receive Company or (French) FAA approval
to conduct the maneuver; 2) did not brief the F/O; 3) it was a revenue flight; passengers were on board;
4) had the airplane in the landing configuration; 5) was below 100 ft RA, thus Alpha Floor was disabled),
6) Low Energy Warning was also disabled.

I'm assuming that either the autothrottles were not engaged or the Mode Control Panel speed had been
manually dialed down to a normal Vapp speed. In any event, the engines were at relatively low thrust and
I'm sure the Captain was thinking, during*****the approach/low altitude fly-by, that "any second now the throttles
will go to TO/GA," I'll just pull gently back on the sidestick and the airplane will perform a nice go-around
maneuver. That did not happen as both Alpha Floor and the Low Energy Warning had been (inadvertently/
unknowingly) disabled. I think the Captain pushed the throttles up; but it was too late. The flight path angle
never became positive.

OK. Thanks for listing the multitude of caveats on an Airbus go-around.

Boeing Go-Around:

Push throttles forward, pull yoke back.

The Airbus is much more quiet and comfortable than a boeing and those qualities lead us try to justify away why the throttles (ehem, thrust levers) were designed not to move. The ergo engineers did awesome. The flight control law engineers went overboard and were worried about justifying their existence.

So says the Turtle.

 

[Turtle21]

.. I miss the table too.

Comfort at the office is really what it comes down to. And who can fault us for that? :blush:

 

[pianoman]

The A320 has basically the same motors as the 737NG. So I don't think the Sully/engine/Airbus sucks argument holds much water. (No pun intended)

 

[Turtle21]

The A320 has basically the same motors as the 737NG. So I don't think the Sully/engine/Airbus sucks argument holds much water. (No pun intended)

I don't think anyone has spoken out against the Airbus engines.

I think you will find that all the derogatory comments about Airbus are the systems that airbus puts in place that distance the pilot from the plane. And there is a lot of truth behind the emotion.

 

[migration]

Just got done with A320 initial Qual (USairways West) coming off the 737, easiest school I've ever been through. Gonna love this bird!!!!!