Air Wisconsin

[Skyranger777]

Whats the good, the bad and ugly on Air Wisconsin? Looking at putting a resume in with them. Seems like their pay isn't to bad, it jumps up 11k after first year. I also heard a rumor that they may be getting 170's or 190's, is that true? Any help would be great! Thx

 

[1973Arrow]

I also heard a rumor that they may be getting 170's or 190's, is that true? Any help would be great! Thx

I belive things one of two times --
1. when I see it in my paycheck
2. when I see it actually happen

...this is a rumor thats been arround and arround and arround and arround and arround...you get the idea.

 

[wheelsup]

Whats the good, the bad and ugly on Air Wisconsin? Looking at putting a resume in with them. Seems like their pay isn't to bad, it jumps up 11k after first year. I also heard a rumor that they may be getting 170's or 190's, is that true? Any help would be great! Thx

The pay goes from $23/hr to $34/hr second year, which isn't great but isn't horrible. If the pilots get their wish, the 'old' contract will be reinstated, and that will bump second year pay to $39/hr on the CRJ - which, to my knowledge, will make it the highest paying 50 seater regional out there. Now, do I think that will happen? Not really, especially after the proposed Comair pay scale. And I hate to say it, but doing so could price the company out of future growth. I saw some report that had Mesa @ 10.5 cents per seat mile while AWAC, at the current rates, are 15 cents per seat mile, i.e. 50% higher cost than Mesa. Not a good thing when the legacies are trying to cut costs!

Thee 190's are 100% out of the question. The 170's are an extremely far fetched idea. They spent all their liquid cash on securing their spot with US Air when they invested in it, so I don't see much money left over for buying additional aircraft. Keep in mind the company is extremely conservative, and growth probably won't happen - in fact the fleet is shrinking by one fleet type and around 17 airplanes when the 146's are totally gone in April '06.

Don't come to AWAC with the prospect of advancement quickly. Come to AWAC because from day 1 the company treats you like a person, not a servant a la [insert bottom feeder here].

~wheelsup

 

[Skyranger777]

I would like to have the best of both worlds, fast advancement and quality of life. I know this is hard to come by but as I have heard quality of life from the get go can far surpass the advancement prospect. To be treated fair and decent (like a human being) is something I am more interested in. Plus the pay compared to most other regionals is much better!

 

[iflysky]

I would like to have the best of both worlds, fast advancement and quality of life. I know this is hard to come by but as I have heard quality of life from the get go can far surpass the advancement prospect. To be treated fair and decent (like a human being) is something I am more interested in. Plus the pay compared to most other regionals is much better!

Come to ExpressJet

 

[wheelsup]

I would like to have the best of both worlds, fast advancement and quality of life.

The only way that would happen is if you got on with a carrier like Expressjet when they were just starting their growth spurt. In all honestly, I think the days of the regionals rapidly expanding are over with - with some shrinkage even happening possibly. The only expansion I can see is 70 & 90+ seaters, which would suck for our career prospects in the long term.

~wheelsup

 

[FlyinPiker]

- in fact the fleet is shrinking by one fleet type and around 17 airplanes when the 146's are totally gone in April '06.
~wheelsup

For the record we are already down to 5 operational BAC-146's with 1 spare according to the November newsletter. Pilots flying the BAC have already been awarded positions in the CRJ with delayed training. Puts things into a better perspective for those thinking 17 airplanes are going to disappear all of a sudden in April. I doubt if you'll even feel it as a newhire....maybe an extra month or three on reserve.

 

[masedogg19]

with this big break between ground school and sim training...im hoping that my time on reserve is a little closer to that one month than three

 

[FlyinPiker]

I doubt if the BAC's going away will effect masedogg19 or anyone else hired in the next few months reserve times. By the time they actually get the 146 guys back online (Mayish-Junish....who knows, but that's still 7 months away!!!!!), you should be holding lines somewhere in the sytem. Once you are a lineholder at AWAC the only way that can be taken away is through a displacement which I doubt they will have since all of the BAC guys already have new positions incorperated in to the current staffing model (plus it cost's $$$$). They'll time this thing out so we are running lean on captains about the time they come over to the CRJ ( assuming we ever get back to proper staffing as it is).

In the grand scheme of things I think the only thing the 50 or so BAC guys coming over to the CRJ will do is put a pause on upgrades for 1-3 months around April.

Enjoy the break!

 

[Mayday911]

The guys just awarded CA on the last vacancy notice are heading to training this month. Junior award had a hire date of either 11/02 or 12/02,
CRJ CA ORF Res

 

[masedogg19]

im glad we have this break.....gives me time to get everything down solid....and its paid.....no complaints

 

[s.o.sJTB]

I saw some report that had Mesa @ 10.5 cents per seat mile while AWAC, at the current rates, are 15 cents per seat mile, i.e. 50% higher cost than Mesa. Not a good thing when the legacies are trying to cut costs!
~wheelsup

Assuming the RJ costs about $1100 per hr to operate I cant imagine that Mesa could do it for $600 pr hr. Even if Mesa was only 10% cheaper than AWAC that is still a $100 pr hr difference, that is still way more than the difference in crew compensation.

AWAC pilots could almost fly for free and Mesa would still be cheaper, Mesa could almost double there compensation and still be competitive with AWAC. My point is that it is not crew compensation that is the problem, it is the efficienacy of the operation and the way its management decides to do business.

 

[Kenny]

They spent all their liquid cash on securing their spot with US Air when they invested in it, so I don't see much money left over for buying additional aircraft.
~wheelsup

Not sure where you got that little bit of info. Considering how "smart" the 3 Amigos are I'd say they could probably find the money to finance more aircraft. They keep harping on about how 90 seaters are the future and 70 seaters are merely a band-aid for the short term. If we get any new aircraft they are going to be CRJ900's, not only do they save on the training costs but they're not scoped out by the America West guys. I very much doubt EMB's whether they are 170's or not are anywhere in our future.

Hey mayday, thank god you finally got your slot!!!!

 

[wheelsup]

Assuming the RJ costs about $1100 per hr to operate I cant imagine that Mesa could do it for $600 pr hr. Even if Mesa was only 10% cheaper than AWAC that is still a $100 pr hr difference, that is still way more than the difference in crew compensation.

You're right, I had posted this same train of thought a long time ago but people seemed to ignore it. However, pilot pay has to have something to do with it, because it factors into the overall cost structure of the airline. Here is the table:

http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/2004/bts035_04/html/bts035_04.html#table_12

Table 12: Airline Domestic Unit Costs (Cents per Mile)

Regionals
Ranked by 3rd Quarter Domestic Unit Costs
(Domestic Operating Expenses per Available Seat Mile in cents)
Excel | CSV
3Q 2004 RankRegional Carriers3rd Quarter 2003 (cents per mile)4th Quarter 2003 (cents per mile)1st Quarter 2004 (cents per mile)2nd Quarter 2004 (cents per mile)3rd Quarter 2004 (cents per mile)3rd Quarter Operating Expenses $(Millions)
Air Wisconsin 13.45 14.65 15.66 15.40 15.45 156.82
American Eagle 15.23 13.50 14.76 14.27 14.21 319.23
Sky West 12.49 12.79 13.19 13.35 13.23 270.34
Express Jet 13.32 12.92 13.40 12.58 12.6 63 12.35
Atlantic Southeast 11.68 11.97 12.15 11.99 12.34 216.16
Comair 10.81 10.88 11.58 11.49 12.23 291.97
Mesa N/A N/A 11.76 10.34 10.87 209.1
Seven Carrier Total N/A N/A 14.69 14.18 14.191,775.9

That table is from 2004. Mesa cost - 10.87 cents - AWAC cost - 15.45 cents per mile. I was thinking that 10/15 was 50% for some reason when I typed it out. MAG's costs are actually about 70% of AWAC's - still pretty significant, IMO.

This is the newest report - for 2Q 2005.
http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/2005/bts041_05/html/bts041_05.html

If you bother to read through it, it's pretty interesting. US Air better get in gear with their whopping 15.3 cents/mile costs :crying: ...or I'll be out of a job soon.

~wheelsup

 

[wheelsup]

If we get any new aircraft they are going to be CRJ900's, not only do they save on the training costs but they're not scoped out by the America West guys.!!!!

I think there is some ratio that the AWA pilots agreed to. Something like X amount of 900's for X amount of narrowbodies or something to that affect. It's my understanding that they are limited, however I don't know by how much. I could be wrong though.

~wheelsup

 

[Mongolikecandy]

from day 1 the company treats you like a person, not a servant a la [insert bottom feeder here].

~wheelsup

You must not be one of the poor saps who has been junior manned twice in one sequence. And it isn't just happening to captains.

 

[Boondock Saint]

So is now a good time to try to become a part of the AirWis team?

 

[Mayday911]

Absolutely...I have moved up 164 numbers since 10/03. That is significant since our group has less than 1000 pilots (roughly 830 including management and those on leave). I believe they are planning to hire significant numbers through the first part of next year and the attrition is still higher than they predicted.

 

[Boondock Saint]

What is the junior domicile right now? Norfolk? I noticed on their website it says open positions are DCA and Philly.

Also, with the ownership entanglement with USAir is there no potential for code share with anyone else? (that may be a stupid question lol). Im just curiuos what kind of growth potential AirWis may have.

Thanks for any input.

 

[StarChk20]

Does Air Wis have pref bidding?