Air midwest crashes into hangar @ CLT??

[enigma]

My heart goes out to the friends and family. I put in a call to a friend who recently flew for Mesa (making sure it wasn't him) and learned that both pilots were good pilots and good people. I'm praying that it was the airplane that failed them.

It's been over ten years since I flew the mighty Beech, so my memory is a little dim; but my take on the engine out climb capabilities of the 1900 is that it may do 1000fpm dirty when it's empty on a training flight, but no way will it do it anywhere close to gross.

Someone speculated earlier that they could have been somehow out of CG. I remember reading about a UB1900 that crashed in AK in the middle 80's, they managed to fly an extremely aft CG 1900 for almost an entire flight after being overloaded with moose meat in the aft/aft. They were almost 1500#s overweight and the CG was somewhere around 48%MAC. (cg range is 4% to 40%) The aircraft was controllable right up to the point that landing flaps were selected. Only then did the horizontal tailsurface run out of ooph with the subsequent loss of control. So I doubt that CG was the cause.

Just in case some media type is reading this, if I had to pick one airplane to fly for the rest of my career, the 1900 would be tied for number one alongside an old Lear55. It's that good an airplane. It it only had a blue-lagoon, it'd be almost perfect.

regards,
8N

 

[Typhoon1244]

I watch Fox News a lot. Best out there on the cable networks in my opinion, and the ratings.

Shortly after September 11, Fox ran a story about psychological screening of pilots. The headline: "Is the guy flying your airplane a wacko?"

Fox is a news network the way the Enquirer is a newspaper. Their anchors wouldn't know dignity if it hit them in the face.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Originally posted by dogman
I was just wondering, the media almost always screws up the reporting with aviation related news. How acurate is the reporting with subjects that I know little about?

My wife used to work for Child Protective Services...she said she's never seen a child welfare issue accurately reported. (God lover 'er, she finally forced Fox-4 News Dallas to interview her so she could correct a story they'd botched.)

I've also heard that medicine often takes it on the chin in news reporting.

The inaccuracy is only half of what makes me sick, though...

I am, of course, too young to remember this personally, but I'm told that shortly after Eastern 401 went down in the Everglades, there were reporters at MIA sticking microphones in peoples' faces, asking questions like "can you tell us how it feels to lose your whole family this close to Christmas?"

Be warned, everyone, I'm about to reveal a blisteringly inhuman thought...all of our brains probably have a dark corner that enjoys indulging in such ideas: I'd like to see a mid-air collision between two widebodies loaded to the gills with the families of television news reporters. Let 'em report on that for a while! Let them tell us how it feels to lose a loved one in a tragic accident! Let them cover that story, then lightly turn to another issue...like interest rates or Japanese trade.

No, no, of course I wouldn't really want that to happen.

 

[mar]

Ryan Air Homer, Alaska

Enigma--I'm not sure, but I think you may be alluding to the Ryan Air crash in Homer, Alaska.

That airplane was indeed out of CG but they also *iced up* real bad on the approach. Things went south when they selected flaps--as you mentioned.

Fly safe. Train. Train. Train.

 

[Chas]

what I heard on news....

was an eyewitness said the plane had an unusually high nose up attitude on climbout before the crash then again when AA crashed in Queens people claimed that someone parachuted from the plane prior to it crashing ... Chas

 

[Huck]

HOLD THE PHONE!

Did that little pissant from the ATA actually say that the "One Level of Safety" rules change movement of the mid-nineties was sponsored by ALPA ... AND the ATA???? Yeah... that's it... the airlines were falling over themselves to spend money....

My kingdom for an intelligent aviation journalist!

 

[jobear]

Help the Families

Just a short note to ALL ALPA members you may contribute to the Pilots families via your respective MEC's.
Let us not forget our fallen friends.

Joe Hebert
BE FO

 

[greg20]

Jetstream/Philly Area

Av8trxx said:

As far as accidents go, this Jetstream crashed three years after Comair:

Date: 05/21/2000
Location: Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania
Airline: Executive Airlines
Aircraft: BAe Jetstream 3101
Registration: N16EJ
Fatalities/No. Aboard: 19:19
Details: The plane crashed into a heavily wood area as it was making a second approach to Wilkes-Barre/Scranton International Airport. Visibility was poor in wind, low clouds and light rain. While attempting the second approach, the pilot reported both engines had quit but restarted one of them before the plane crashed.

One of my best friends' grandfather was aboard that Jetstream. It was a charter returning from a day of gambling at ACY. It was (and still is) a very sad and difficult time.


Timebuilder said:

I had been worried that one of the pilots might have been John B., whose father and grandfather ran the little airport where I learned to fly outside of Philly.

Which airport was that, if you don't mind me asking? I moved a few times while working on my PP-ASEL and have moved since, but I finished it up at N99 - Brandywine Airport in West Chester, PA (Philly suburb).

We never know when our time is up, it's very important to be prepared while we can...

 

[canadflyau]

The Press

I also was watching NBC as they reported that the commuters crash 1 in every 100,000 takeoffs... What got my attention was what he said right after the stats were taken down. "The Commuter Catagory includes a/c with less than 10 seats"

HOLD ON!!! Wasn't that the meat and potatoes of the segment (which I saw air shortly on some other networks as well.) So I felt compelled to call them and ask questions.. To mislead the public and editorialize as facts should be criminal! Here is what I asked them:

If the Beech 1900D has 19 seats, and the commuter catagory of crashes is 10 or less seats, which catagory is the 1900 in? They said they would have to recheck.

Is this study of 121 only or 121&135 or 121&135&91? They said they were unclear of the differences (a crash was a crash) and would have to research where the data was pulled from.

Was the study of US Carriers only? Would have to check but they thought so..

Was the study of accidents or incidents and accidents or all fata accidents? Again, not sure. Could you define "crash"? They would have to look into exactly what the data reffered to when it said crash.

With these responses I say that report had NO business being reported.. THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY WERE REPORTING!!! I think they (every Press that reported) should be held liable for slander... If so, you would see them hold their tounges if they new there was a consequence for mis-reporting.

The final thing that really inspired me to get on the phone was on CNBC after all the segments on the crash concluded he said "with all the tough times for airlines, this is a sign of the times." WE just finished 15 months of a 100% safety record in our industry!! That is what I call unintelligent, to make an assertive statement with no fact.. but he planted the seed nonetheless.

This is a tragedy not a commonplace. My hearts and prayers go out to the crew and passengers families. I hope we are all on our knees, and stay there in bad and good times.

 

[Timebuilder]

This is a tragedy not a commonplace. My hearts and prayers go out to the crew and passengers families. I hope we are all on our knees, and stay there in bad and good times.

Amen!

I remember the crash at AVP. If I recall, it was a case of the fuel load not being checked before takeoff, based on assumption or miscommunication. Sad, a truly unnecessary loss.

after Eastern 401 went down in the Everglades, there were reporters at MIA sticking microphones in peoples' faces, asking questions like "can you tell us how it feels to lose your whole family this close to Christmas?"

I remember. This kind of insensitive behavior inspired the hit song Dirty Laundry, done by Don Henley, if I am correct. Local news is by far the worst offender in this area.

As described by canadflyau, the national news outlets rely on interns to find their "less important" research, and there is little effort made to be clear about exactly what is being communicated.

 

[Huck]

I've also seen some drastic changes in commuter accident statistics when you take Alaska flying out of the mix.

 

[JumpJetter]

The press needs to compare apples to apples. But in their defense, the NTSB is not helping them. Look at this link: http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/Paxftl35.htm

On the NTSB website they have two links to summarize accidents entitled "Airlines" and "Commuters". What the lay person misses (or in this case, rock head reporters), is that the NTSB defines these two sets of statistics this way.
Airline = Part 121
Commuter = Part 135

The press doesn't understand that almost all of the "major" regionals in this country operate under Part 121 (sometimes with some grandfathering of rules to 135). Look the the Airline link http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/Paxfatal.htm I only see one regional airline crash listed!

The Commuter crashs are composed of mostly C-402s, B-99 C-208 etc. This is not representative of the regional airlines.

Bottom line, we need to place a little blame of this "misreporting" on the NTSB. There statistics are not clear and do not represent the "change" we've have seen in regional operators over the past 10 years. Time to update you site NTSB.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

speculation

I flew N233YV for 5 days in a row once, and have 1500+ hrs in Mesa and Air Midwest 1900's. I dont even remember 233. I had to check my logbooks. Most of my time was in the high desert of NM and AZ. I have flown these birds on hot days heavy with 19 cowboys and indians in back and .... I think we can rule out it being a CG or performance problem. Especially in cold and low CLT.

Much of Air Midwest training was done in the actual aircraft and Johnathan Gibbs was probably initially trained by Dave Powell in the Beech 1900D. If he was initially trained by Dave I assure you they did a few REAL V1 cuts with all the wheels still on the ground. That was Dave's thing. In hot and high Farmington no less. 1900 type ratings were probably given in the ICT sim. The sim could easily be configured to simulate an engine failure at MTOW. I have no doubt both these pilots knew exactly what to do to keep 233 flying. My GUESS is something catastrophic happened.

Godspeed friends, see you on the other side. This is not a goodbye, only until we meet again.

 

[RightPedal]

ANN News Alert: Commuter Plane Down in Charlotte, NC
Updated Through the Day:
A commuter aircraft has gone down on takeoff at the Charlotte-Douglas International Airport, NC, and impacted a US Air maintenance hangar. US Airways Express officials report that "...the preliminary passenger list indicates that the aircraft carried 19 passengers and two crewmembers, although these numbers are subject to revision."

The aircraft crashed into the US Air facility, on the airport, at approximately 0840, EST. One eyewitness (whose credibility and expertise we haven't been able to confirm) says the plane had achieved about 1200 feet of altitude, when it appeared to have stalled; it seemed to recover with about 200 feet of altitude left -- then it went sraight in.

The affected flight was confirmed as Air MidWest commuter, Flight 5481, enroute to the Greenville-Spartanburg Jetport in South Carolina. The aircraft is a Beech 1900D twin turboprop, operating on a US Airways Express flight. A police source is now reporting that they have found no survivors and that there has been at least one injury to someone on the ground, though all personnel are accounted for. Some witness reports indicate the aircraft rolled to an inverted attitude prior to impact.

Crew Identified:
The crew was composed of a Captain & First Officer. The captain was Katie Leslie and the first officer was Jonathan Gibbs, both based in Charlotte, NC. "Our deepest condolences go out to the families of these employees who were exemplary members of the Air Midwest family," said Greg Stephens, President of Air Midwest, Inc.

The aircraft was 8 years old, had logged 15,010 hours, with 21,000 takeoffs and landings. This accident is the first fatal commercial US air accident in more than a year. A quick search of NTSB records indicates that the Beech 1900 series has a history of at least six accidents, involving fatalities, in the last dozen years.

The aircraft was registered as N233YV. Air Midwest has turned over to the FAA & NTSB all records relating maintenance and history of the aircraft.

US Airways President and Chief Executive Officer David Siegel said, "All of us in the US Airways family are deeply saddened by today's Air Midwest accident in Charlotte, N.C., and I wish to express our deepest personal sympathy to the families and friends of passengers and crewmembers aboard the aircraft. Our thoughts and prayers are with them.

"We do not know and cannot speculate about what happened to Flight 5481, which is under investigation by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). Members of both US Airways' and Air Midwest's accident investigation teams are cooperating fully with the NTSB, the Federal Aviation Administration and other agencies. They have our complete support.

"A specially trained team of US Airways employees is traveling to Charlotte and the flight's destination city of Greenville/Spartanburg, South Carolina, to assist the families and loved ones of those on board Flight 5481. We are also working closely with the American Red Cross, which will be providing support.

"Our first priority is to provide a supportive and responsive environment for family members, and while we cannot lessen their sorrow, we will do everything in our power to assist them during this difficult time.

"I would also like to express our deep appreciation to those people in the emergency units who responded without hesitation and with great care. We are grateful to all of them."

Jonathan Ornstein, Chairman & CEO of Mesa Air Group, said, "We are deeply saddened by today's event. Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and crew of flight 5481. We are working with the NTSB and other agencies in the investigation of this accident."

[Mesa has established a special toll-free telephone number to call for information about those on board Flight 5481. The number is 1-800-679-8215 --ed.]

Watch for irresponsible/incorrect reports, too:
Unfortunately, the usual aero-ignorant media feeding frenzy is fully underway with "Scary Mary" Schiavo already engaging in wild speculation as to the causes of the accident (mind you, this while the wreckage is still visibly smoking on our TV screens) and CNN is posting specs for the Beech 1900--using a picture of a KingAir... God Help Us...

Confusion About Who's Who
Timothy E. Hoeksema, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer, Midwest Express Holdings, had to issue a statement, as well: "The employees of Midwest Express and Skyway Airlines express their sincere condolences to the families of those who lost their lives in the tragic crash of US Airways Express Flight 5481. Our airline - Midwest Express Airlines - has received many inquiries today regarding the Charlotte accident, apparently because of the similarity of our names. Other than a codeshare partnership with Air Midwest that only pertains to flights to and from Kansas City, there is no relationship or affiliation between our airlines."

FMI: www.mesa-air.com; www.air_midwest.html

 

[JayDub]

I remember. This kind of insensitive behavior inspired the hit song Dirty Laundry, done by Don Henley, if I am correct. Local news is by far the worst offender in this area.

What inspired this hit song was an individual reporter. She did an investigative report on Mr. Henley and his girl friend at the time. It seems Mr. Henley liked young girls, and this one was no different. I think she was @ 17 and he was early thirties.

Any how, Mr. Henley didn't like this story, but couldn't refute much of it either. This reporter had made a name for herself by being aggressive. The incident mentioned in the song was actually her signature piece of work.

Do you remember the (I think) DC-9 that hit the Cherokee over L.A. back in the early Seventies? The one that led to the current restriction of 250 kts. under 10k? The cherokee busted the TCA (Class B for all neophytes) and this DC-9 hit it and rained people and parts everywhere.

The police and other emergency workers requested everyone stay out of the crash zone. It was rather spread out and hard to patrol. This lady (who happened to be blonde) did a live remote from amongst the carnage inside the "ropes", while every other reporter honored the wishes of the emergency workers, not to mention common sense. After this, she got a real reputation.

That was the reference in the song. She was gunning for a network slot at the time. The aircraft accident made her too controversial to hire, according to legend. Sorry, I don't remember her name. Just that she was a local L.A. reporter.

Thoughts and Prayers to all involved.

JayDub

 

[ultrarunner]

NTSB brief

I just caught the last few secs of the NTSB brief. Some details are:

The flight lasted 37 seconds.

Max Alt reached: 1200 feet (i'm asuming msl)

Max ANU 52 degrees!

IF (with my emphasis) there was an engine failure, I would suspect the VMC would have been reached very quickly, and a very quick VMC roll with that ANU.

 

[Timebuilder]

JayDub-

Actually, what I said was "This kind of insensitive behavior inspired..." the song.

Don's personal experience is what brought it all to a head. There was also some reference to cocaine and a sixteen year old, and charges of prostitution were mentioned in the wire stories. It's a little foggy now, and hard to follow a conversation one had over drinks twenty years ago while at a party with the band at Windows, atop the WTC. Gone are the days...

I don't recall her name, either his girlfriend or the reporter.

 

[greg20]

This one?

JayDub said:

Do you remember the (I think) DC-9 that hit the Cherokee over L.A. back in the early Seventies? The one that led to the current restriction of 250 kts. under 10k? The cherokee busted the TCA (Class B for all neophytes) and this DC-9 hit it and rained people and parts everywhere.

Was it this one? A PSA 727 had a mid-air with a C-172 over San Diego in 1978.

AirDisaster.com Detail

 

[El Cid Av8or]

ultrarunner (or someone else)

Forgive my lack of experience, but please elaborate on what "Max ANU" stands for. I'm guessing the maximum upward pitch that the aircraft attained? Thanks.

On another note...
I really like the last line of got_jumpseat?'s post. I don't think I've ever heard it put that way and I like it.

 

[FL000]

I think this might be my favorite quote of the whole investigation so far. It says so much about how the media just throw crap out there without even so much as a cursory investigation of facts, knowing it will stick with the general public:

"No flight attendants were on the plane because it was a short flight."

It is from this cnn story.