Air Force to UAL New Hire

[waveflyer]

I'm sorry. We should stop joking. This is a very serious thread for you and we aren't taking it seriously.

No- it's just a couple guys on FI not taking it seriously-

I've gotten a positive response from people who actually matter

Bottom line, background shouldn't matter- do not think that at SWA that terrible reputation in civilian ops isn't well earned-

My only point-
Want a good reputation- go get one
Until then don't be pissed when the people who have lived and breathed 121 ops get a bit upset when our pilots get left out of the hiring process in favor of military pilots who haven't done it

Please don't think me figuring out that an FI pissing contest is a total waste of time is the same as you winning the debate

Go to a regional - get some airline experience-
Then maybe you guys won't be afraid of taxiing when you upgrade

 

[Mamma]

You should really have a talk with your CP. I don't know what kind of training program you have at SWA but from reading your comments, it sounds terrible! 8-12 yrs in the right seat should be enough experience to be a proficient captain. Maybe it was the lack of 1900 time? Military guys never taxi the plane either. We just shut the formation down on the runway and have them towed off. It's great! Sorry you missed the cut but no need to act like a jilted lover!

 

[waveflyer]

Dig for dig
But sorry, never tried- never wanted to fly military-

It wasn't your extra special pre screens (that ABSOLUTELY predict a successful comrade :-/ ) that kept me out of your game

No- it's not the act of taxiing that gets them- it's that they never dealt with ohare and laguardia so Vegas can trip them up
It's law of primacy- they weren't taxiing or flying civilian 121 ops, so the pace, te business, the smoothness, the complexities aren't as natural- or else why would so many just blindly slam on the brakes when a Ramper crosses the wands?
Way to follow orders from a guy making $15/hr kernals- a normal pilot would know where the 737 nose wheel is and the mark they have to put it on and somewhat anticipate, not just myopically follow the wands.

And that's just one of 300 nuances civilians pick up in their initial experience that mil guys don't get bc they're excelling at dropping bombs and flying formation. Cool to talk about- but no applicability to what we do.

And as with all these critiques- if the military was such a good training ground- why do mil types struggle ?
I'm not making it up-

 

[waveflyer]

And AC

Disabilities?

Really?

You just sound exactly like the ass your coworkers all talk about when you say stuff like that

 

[Mamma]

Dig for dig
But sorry, never tried- never wanted to fly military-

It wasn't your extra special pre screens (that ABSOLUTELY predict a successful comrade :-/ ) that kept me out of your game

No- it's not the act of taxiing that gets them- it's that they never dealt with ohare and laguardia so Vegas can trip them up
It's law of primacy- they weren't taxiing or flying civilian 121 ops, so the pace, te business, the smoothness, the complexities aren't as natural- or else why would so many just blindly slam on the brakes when a Ramper crosses the wands?
Way to follow orders from a guy making $15/hr kernals- a normal pilot would know where the 737 nose wheel is and the mark they have to put it on and somewhat anticipate, not just myopically follow the wands.

And that's just one of 300 nuances civilians pick up in their initial experience that mil guys don't get bc they're excelling at dropping bombs and flying formation. Cool to talk about- but no applicability to what we do.

And as with all these critiques- if the military was such a good training ground- why do mil types struggle ?
I'm not making it up-

Once again, this sounds like a SWA training problem and not a mil problem. A guy doesn't get hired at SWA and made a capt the next day. It's at least a decade to upgrade and if they can't figure out where the nose wheel is then I say SWA has major problems. Unless your full of excrement.

Really though, I think you're making this job a lot harder than it really is. It's not hard to taxi. If I guy can taxi a B-1 or C-5, I don't think a 737 is going to trip them up. It's not hard to fly a STAR, an ILS or taxi.

I'm with you in that RJ dudes should get more respect and interviews. You just don't need to insult the mil guys to prove your point. Im still a bit skeptical on your numbers though.

 

[waveflyer]

I make it hard?

I think you're defensive-

To me, the attitude of that post is common and part of the problem.

Things become easy when one puts in the work to make them easy. Many military spent so much energy perfecting very dangerous types of flying that they don't feel it necessary to work on the nuisances of airline ops. Often spending much of the career living in the past glory days

I get what you're saying about training, but that's not the issue here in my opinion- it's cultural-
I didn't find near as many arrogant military pilots in past airlines-
And I have to stress it's much less than half- but there is a considerable element- and when you combine that with the learning curve, it makes no sense not to hire more experienced civilians

Disparage military?

It's civilians who have been disparaged in the hiring process -
And though 26/30 is unique- i am done taking a backseat to pilots who aren't as experienced as we are

 

[pilotyip]

Your guys military rivalry humor is amazing- so funny

No seriously, it's so funny

So
So
Funny

As if we don't see this in the airline world. Anybody remember Gen Lee?

 

[tankerhead]

i am done taking a backseat to pilots who aren't as experienced as we are

You're done? Are you gonna start whacking guys that haven't paid their dues? Or tell them your opinions about their sh1tty skills and convince them to go work at Gulfstream? How are you "done"?

 

[AirCobra]

And AC

Disabilities?

Really?

You just sound exactly like the ass your coworkers all talk about when you say stuff like that

WTF are you talking about? I had a friend who lost a bunch of fingers on both hands in an accident and fought with the FAA to get his ratings and had to demonstrate enough that he had enough finger strength to fly an airplane, and is now an airline pilot. I have also read stories about people who lost limbs having the drive and determination to change the way the FAA looks at people with disabilities. These are inspiring stories and great accomplishments, much more so than being able to write a big check to pay for a job which you seem to think is the pinnacle of flight training.

 

[AirCobra]

I make it hard?

I think you're defensive-

To me, the attitude of that post is common and part of the problem.

Things become easy when one puts in the work to make them easy. Many military spent so much energy perfecting very dangerous types of flying that they don't feel it necessary to work on the nuisances of airline ops. Often spending much of the career living in the past glory days

I get what you're saying about training, but that's not the issue here in my opinion- it's cultural-
I didn't find near as many arrogant military pilots in past airlines-
And I have to stress it's much less than half- but there is a considerable element- and when you combine that with the learning curve, it makes no sense not to hire more experienced civilians

Disparage military?

It's civilians who have been disparaged in the hiring process -
And though 26/30 is unique- i am done taking a backseat to pilots who aren't as experienced as we are

You have yet to prove that the 26/30 were less experienced, nor have you responded to the fact there are more civilian trained pilots at SWA than military trained pilots. I gave you the benefit of the doubt but now you are just being a weenie. Give it up. You proved you are a bag of prejudices instead of a thinking and reasoning person.

 

[AirCobra]

You're done? Are you gonna start whacking guys that haven't paid their dues? Or tell them your opinions about their sh1tty skills and convince them to go work at Gulfstream? How are you "done"?

The idle threats of the anonymous message board. I have been waiting three years for a guy to tell the Women's Bible Study group at my church that they are equivalent to the Taliban.

 

[AirCobra]

No- it's not the act of taxiing that gets them- it's that they never dealt with ohare and laguardia so Vegas can trip them up
It's law of primacy- they weren't taxiing or flying civilian 121 ops, so the pace, te business, the smoothness, the complexities aren't as natural- or else why would so many just blindly slam on the brakes when a Ramper crosses the wands?

There was a KC-135 and a C-130 unit at ORD for over 20 years. What did those guys do? There are also military units still collocated with several major airports. I think the FAA determined the problem with taxiing was confusing and irregular signage, not military training.

So this isn't complex taxiing requiring smoothness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtZ_3ZvFkhg

And we all know someone who could do this could never possess the skill necessary for Part 121 taxiing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWKAWABHmiU


I would like you to offer any proof of what you just said. You have really gone over the deep end here.

 

[Mamma]

Disparage military?

It's civilians who have been disparaged in the hiring process -
And though 26/30 is unique- i am done taking a backseat to pilots who aren't as experienced as we are

If things at SWA are so bad you really need to "be done taking the backseat" and get an appointment with your boss. Leave us mil guys out of it. You boss established the "hook-up" program for mil guys and trained them to a standard SWA finds acceptable. SWA wants mil guys to the regional pilot's detriment. That sucks and quite frankly, I'm surprised. You've been cheerleading SWA with pom-poms for a long time in regards to what a great culture they have and how they only hire the best. In fact, much of this has been at the expense of Air Tran guys and how they don't measure up. With 1/2 your pilots being crappy mil guys who "dont get it" I'm imagining Air Tran guys must really suck to you!

Anyway, if you're really done taking the backseat and not just a windbag, elevate your concerns. Call your union too! They can help end this travesty.

 

[Flopgut]

If things heat up with Russia and we ramp up militarily, how about some of us that didn't get in 20+ years ago take a turn? You guys can stay home and BBQ drink beer and hang with the family, fly for the airline, sound good?

 

[waveflyer]

You're done? Are you gonna start whacking guys that haven't paid their dues? Or tell them your opinions about their sh1tty skills and convince them to go work at Gulfstream? How are you "done"?

Do you learn how to "whack guys" in the military?

Not my thing but knock yourself out

No- I've said that- I don't begrudge any pilot taking advantage of any opportunity- but I'll work with SWA on the thing