Age 65 ICAO Rule – You Might Be Surprised

[PropPiedmont]

10 out of 12 pilots you fly with have problems?? Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, they aren't the ones with problems???

Again, you need to read what I wrote. Did I say 10 out of twelve pilots I fly with have problems? No.

Read it, read it again, then maybe read it one more time. After that read it one more time.

If you want details of trying to help a grandpa figure out how to use autothrottles, VNAV, and an FMC all without him ever haven even used email, then I can give you that information.

Frustration, that's all it is. Sometimes a little uncomfortability mixed in as you're about to bust an altitude or miss a turn because one of the crew doesn't understand a system being used. These frustrations are only more pronounced with the older fellas.

But, then again I could be the problem. I can still see at night, I can still hear most sounds, and I usually understand instructions the first or second time. Maybe I'm over sensitive to my surroundings, thus creating my own problem.

 

[pilotyip]

Safety Flag

Great point but I am still confused. You say this is economic while others say safety. Can you address why there has to be a pilot who is less than 60 below 10,000ft? Also, can you list me more than 2 ICAO countries that allow allow their pilots to fly over 60? I understand ICAO allows flying over age 60 but it is up to the discretion of each country/operator whether they do so. Here, they made age 60 an issue of discrimination. If it was purely discrimination, then why did American put out that policy on having the pilot who is over 60 have a pilot less than 60 under 10,000ft?

The Safety Flag is being waived, because it effects the economics of some. After all greed is bad, but safety, patriotism and motherhood are all feel good and no one could be against safety.

 

[Flopgut]

The Safety Flag is being waived, because it effects the economics of some.

From a safety standpoint, age 60 was about as perfect functioning as any rule was/is.

 

[pilotyip]

Age 45?

From a safety standpoint, age 60 was about as perfect functioning as any rule was/is.

But wouldn't age 45 be even more safe, how could anyone be against more safety, Oh! it would effect the economics of too many.

 

[JohnQ]

The Safety Flag is being waived, because it effects the economics of some. After all greed is bad, but safety, patriotism and motherhood are all feel good and no one could be against safety.

Where do you draw the line? 15-year-olds can't drive. My wife used to drive her father's truck on the farm at age 12. Because she "safely" could, does that mean the 16 years minimum driving age is an "outrage?"

Is it an outrage that 17-year-olds can't vote, but a 20-year old Jerry Springer outcast can?

Is it ludicrous that a 20-year-old can't drink? (actually, that one is!)

Is it an outrage that a president has to be at least 35?

Point is that age and residency restrictions are just a fact of life in any country, in numerous venues. Age 60 was just another.

Let me ask you this. 3 1/2 years from now, are you going to be similarly cheering the now-65-year-olds when they petition to remove the "discriminatory" Age 65 rule? (but strangely enough, they aren't saying a damn thing about it now, since they are still 3 years from it affecting them; astoundingly, that will change in 3 1/2 years...what an amazing coincidence that will be!) I reckon you won't be so fond of it when you see two geezers with canes at the controls of your family's flight!

 

[Duke of Ale]

As a senior citizen pilot, I have to make a few comments. As far as older pilots not being familiar with the use of the FMS, I have found very few pilots of all ages use VNAV. I was headed eastbound one day with a tailwind of 150-200kts and was told to slow to 250 and given a crossing restriction. I asked why and ATC's response was people were not making the restriction. My comment was, "that is what VNAV is for". So it is not limited to older pilots. Guys will fly all the way from BOS-LAX and never once question where they are but once they are given a profile descent, they step down to each lower altitude instead of letting the VNAV do it all the way to the lowest altitude because they do not trust it. I don't think age 65 is the problem. I think the problem is carrying pilots that really do not pass check rides, etc. but are passed anyways.

 

[pilotyip]

Hey Reality

As a senior citizen pilot, I have to make a few comments. As far as older pilots not being familiar with the use of the FMS, I have found very few pilots of all ages use VNAV. I was headed eastbound one day with a tailwind of 150-200kts and was told to slow to 250 and given a crossing restriction. I asked why and ATC's response was people were not making the restriction. My comment was, "that is what VNAV is for". So it is not limited to older pilots. Guys will fly all the way from BOS-LAX and never once question where they are but once they are given a profile descent, they step down to each lower altitude instead of letting the VNAV do it all the way to the lowest altitude because they do not trust it. I don't think age 65 is the problem. I think the problem is carrying pilots that really do not pass check rides, etc. but are passed anyways.

Hey this is FI, stop dealing in reality. You and I know this is not a safety issue, it is an economic issue by the younger pilots.

 

[Flopgut]

But wouldn't age 45 be even more safe, how could anyone be against more safety, Oh! it would effect the economics of too many.

Maybe, maybe not. You could be right or wrong?! My point is this: What do we know: Age 60 was controversal, but the actual, real, 40+ year results we can look at is it worked. We might have the same results with 65, but I doubt it. Why are we gambling? Because the economics of a few (not the "many", as you assert) have declined.

 

[B52GUNNER]

The needs of the many is outweighed by the greed of the few.

 

[Flopgut]

As a senior citizen pilot, I have to make a few comments. As far as older pilots not being familiar with the use of the FMS, I have found very few pilots of all ages use VNAV. I was headed eastbound one day with a tailwind of 150-200kts and was told to slow to 250 and given a crossing restriction. I asked why and ATC's response was people were not making the restriction. My comment was, "that is what VNAV is for". So it is not limited to older pilots. Guys will fly all the way from BOS-LAX and never once question where they are but once they are given a profile descent, they step down to each lower altitude instead of letting the VNAV do it all the way to the lowest altitude because they do not trust it. I don't think age 65 is the problem. I think the problem is carrying pilots that really do not pass check rides, etc. but are passed anyways.

I'm certified to use vnav for RNP apchs basically anywhere. Including places like Quito, Ecuador. You're not characterizing vnav use accurately.