Age 65 ICAO Rule – You Might Be Surprised

[Sluggo_63]

Again this looks like the safety flag waving for an economic result. Who is safer in the cockpit a 70 year old pilot with resting pulse of 60 BP of 120/80 and BMI of 22, or the 55 year old special issue medical after coronary by bass surgery, with resting pulse of 100, BP of 140/100, and BMI of 28? BTW At NJ, can't ths union put this in there contract to set a mandorty retirement age that meets a majority of the pilot's desires?

You always make these ridiculous arguments. How about a 63 year old with early onset Alzheimer's or a 47 year old marathon runner?

The question you should be asking is who is more safe-the average 55 year old, or the average 70 year old?

 

[popgoesbubble]

It's old guys only argument they all say they have seen younger guys sleeping on the job or that couldn't fly an approach etc etc but medical records show that a older pilot is 9 times more likely to have a stroke then the 5% group that are 40 years and younger. It's interesting because both the pilot that died in the King Air a few months ago and the guy that got lost over JFK where both 69 years of age and where both ex Military fighter pilots. Which I will add are the sharpest and most fit pilots out there. You don't see to many 30, 40 , 50 year old ex military guys with beer guts like you do in the civilian world. The point is these guys where in Peak shape in there days and I'm willing to bet they took better care of themselves than there civilian only counterparts but it happens to ALL of us eventually the mind goes your Hand Eye coordination goes as you get older and its knowing when it is time to call it quits and 65 is when You should call it quits.

 

[pilotyip]

Jim Fix

You always make these ridiculous arguments. How about a 63 year old with early onset Alzheimer's or a 47 year old marathon runner?

Jim Fix, Marathon Runner, fitness guru, fatal hearth attack atage 52. Your point is? We are going to use averages when we may have better tools available to determine who is a health risk in the cocpkit beyone just picking an age. Lets come up with a skill test.

 

[PsubS]

I really can't believe that this issue is still being debated here.

Whether you like the rule or not, it is the law. It is unlikely to change. Bitching about it, other than being your God-given right, does nothing to alter the situation.

 

[Fly4hire]

Jim Fix, Marathon Runner, fitness guru, fatal hearth attack atage 52. Your point is? We are going to use averages when we may have better tools available to determine who is a health risk in the cocpkit beyone just picking an age. Lets come up with a skill test.

We have a skills test - it's called CQ, SVT, Initial, type rides, LOE, AQP, etc.

I'm OK with no age limits so long as everyone has to pass a no-s@@T military type flight physical and maintain military PT standards. No more pulse and you pass FAA specialty docs.

Of courser the real irony of the age rule is in the ICAO countries that started the whole 65 rule there are no ADA rules or age discrimination litigation that has geriatric paraplegics sueing to fly airliners. The very same ICAO countries that allow age 65 also allow individual companies to determine retirement age, with most doing it before 60, as well as much higher physical standards.

 

[pilotyip]

Absoluetly agree

We have a skills test - it's called CQ, SVT, Initial, type rides, LOE, AQP, etc.

I'm OK with no age limits so long as everyone has to pass a no-s@@T military type flight physical and maintain military PT standards. No more pulse and you pass FAA specialty docs.

Give tests that will determine a higher probability of no in-flight incapacity . Better than a simple; lets pick an age. Remember there are a number of recorded in-flight incapacitation’s with pilots in their ages in the 40's and 50's. I still believe the push for a lower age is more of an economic issue with many and the safety flag is being waived. Because after all, who can be against safety?

 

[bluesideup340]

Give tests that will determine a higher probability of no in-flight incapacity . Better than a simple; lets pick an age. Remember there are a number of recorded in-flight incapacitation’s with pilots in their ages in the 40's and 50's. I still believe the push for a lower age is more of an economic issue with many and the safety flag is being waived. Because after all, who can be against safety?

But in all fairness the push to increase the age to 65 had nothing to do with discrimination either. It was all about the economics of guys that could bot affort to retire at 60.

 

[pilotyip]

Pilot Shortage

But in all fairness the push to increase the age to 65 had nothing to do with discrimination either. It was all about the economics of guys that could bot affort to retire at 60.

There was a also a growing experience shortage amongst new hire pilots in the fall of 2007. That may have been a factor in extending the age.

 

[popgoesbubble]

There was a also a growing experience shortage amongst new hire pilots in the fall of 2007. That may have been a factor in extending the age.

Yeah all those ex Military pilots that got out in the mid 90's sure didn't have any experience most of them where combat vets of the Gulf War. just Like all the old guys we are talking about now most of them where combat vets from the Vietnam war.

The fact is it was a economic push by older pilots because they are from the Baby boomer generation of greed. Most are supporting 2-3 ex wifes because they couldn't keep it in there pants and got caught cheating with some dumb bimbo Flight attendant which most a basically a Notch above Hooker that and and they realized they can't afford those 2 homes boats and RV's that they purchased to keep up with the jones. So much for them not wanting to be like there parents and being against the man.

WWII generation = our Greatest Generation They built this great country

Vietnam Generation = our biggest regret They are destroying our great country.

Like the saying goes about the Grateful Dead I'll be Grateful when there Dead

 

[DrunkIrishman]

If you think VS is dangerous because of a lack of speed protection then you had better not hand fly ever for the same reason!

 

[Mach 80]

>>>I'm OK with no age limits so long as everyone has to pass a no-s@@T military type flight physical ...<<<

The cost of FAA physicals would become enormous. The few additional medical issues issues that would be discovered would not be cost effective ...a poor cost benefit ratio considering large aircraft have two pilots. The FAA medical was NEVER meant to be an all inclusive medical -- the FAA just primarily wants to know that you can see, hear, and have no glaring other issues and the pilot community would never want to pay for anything more. Can you imaghine $750 physicals? Most physical "downs" are self disclosed anyway when a pilot discovers he has a problem such as the skinny military looking 45 year old runner at my airline who always had heartburn after one of his lenghty runs. He goes to the doctor about it and discovers one of his arteries is 90% clogged and he was mistaking the heart pain he was having as heartburn.

 

[bluesideup340]

There was a also a growing experience shortage amongst new hire pilots in the fall of 2007. That may have been a factor in extending the age.

Now it is you who raises the safety flat just to camouflage your generations economic agenda.
I am not saying the junior folks aren’t guilty of the same.
But at least let us be interlegually honest and admit, it is all about economics for both groups and nothing else.
Which brings me back to a previous post, isn't it time for us to seriously discuss how to restructure compensate for left and right seat pilots fairly?

.

 

[JohnQ]

There was a also a growing experience shortage amongst new hire pilots in the fall of 2007. That may have been a factor in extending the age.

There is taking a stand on an issue, and then there is outright self-imposed delusion. This quote may be the best example of the latter that I have ever seen.

 

[pilotyip]

Reverse Safety

Now it is you who raises the safety flat just to camouflage your generations economic agenda.
I am not saying the junior folks aren’t guilty of the same.
But at least let us be interlegually honest and admit, it is all about economics for both groups and nothing else.
Which brings me back to a previous post, isn't it time for us to seriously discuss how to restructure compensate for left and right seat pilots fairly?

.

The safety flag was raised by congress, due to absolute lack of any experience on new hires at thew lower levels of the airline industry. I was there putting 250 Comm/Inst/MEL into the right seat of the DA-20 and three months later in right seat of DC-9's because they were the most qualified available. AW&ST published a report of a severe pilot shortage for the next 30 years in the summer of 2007. Congress reacted to prevent further experience losses from cockpit. Now for economic reasons the younger pilots are raising the safety flag to get that old guy out of my seat, which is as I see it a purely economic issue. BTW I have no dog in this flight I did not benefit from the new age 65 rule, I was too old.

 

[Duke of Ale]

To Drunk Irishman: I don't really think using VS is dangerous. All that is required is that you pay attention. But since SOP's are designed for the least common denominator, that's why it's there. As far as hand flying, well that's when we all pay attention so no problem.