Age 63????

[SWA/FO]

SWAPA was (is) very big on extending the age 60 rule. They tried to get it overturned/changed when ALPA was against it. Spending lots of our money. Maybe it will get somewhere now that big ol' ALPA is onboard.

I personally, do not care either way. I'd like to see pilotyip get into the 9 again, if he wants to.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Now it requires a college degree!

I will be 61 this year, this means I can go back and fly the DC-9 again.

PILOTYIP:

It's unfortunate that your company only hires college graduates at the present time. I hope you have enrolled at a local universtiy since retiring from the DC9.

I couldn't resist. I guess I'll have to buy you dinner at the Tin Lizzy.....when they reopen. Change can be brutal, but there is always the Wedge Bar.

Jeff

 

[G4G5]

Wahahaha...I forgot, somebody promised you a rose garden.

Next time just read the profile and you won't look like such an as.

PS I never said anything about a rose garden

 

[Pilotbob3]

Pilotbob3,


Where did you read this age 63 thing? I can't find it anywhere.

did not read about it yet...heard it from a captain...who was told by a union official.....

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Yeah right, My heart bleeds for you. You make the case for extending the age over 60 to all the hard cases and worst case senerios. I think Id be right in guessing that only a very small few fall into the category that you mentioned and most just had poor planning or simply dont have a life. Like I said before, "GET A LIFE" You want something to do, Home Depot is hiring, go tell them your story, someone there might be interested... Its all about you anyway, right...

 

[AA717driver]

Brown--I assume you fly for UPS. If you do, you are blessed to work for top pay and a good retirement. I'm happy for you. If you needed the money and had the choice of flying a couple more years of pushing nails at HD, what would you choose? Or, is that different since it's not you?

Until you've been in my shoes...TC

 

[46Driver]

Who IS that in your avatar???

 

[DrinkSweetTea]

So when its uped to 63, arent those same problems concerning pay and healthcare still going to be present? When do you draw the line?

 

[46Driver]

The problems remain, but are partially alleviated by being allowed to work longer. The fact that humans are living longer and medical care is more expensive, yet you are being forced to retire at the same age (soon without a pension) seems lost on most people. You can't go home again but must awaken to the new reality.

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Yeah, I know Im lucky to be at UPS. I still have a job, thats lucky, but it doesnt mean it is a walk in the park to be a night guys. The last word Id use to describe my job at UPS is "Lucky" That being said, It still doesnt change the fact that changing the age will only stand to benifit one group over another. Which is always bad... You can say that I have personal motives here, we'll so do you. I still say that for a pilot to be at a point in his/her career at age 60 and to need just a few more years to sustain them through retirment is poor planning on a pilots part. Another part of it is that alot of pilots lack the social skills to engauge in social activities with others too, hence not able to have a life away from aviation (wiggleing the stix)... I dont see why the whole industry should have to change to compensate for that.

If you want to argue that post 9/11 economic situation has made the (situation) bad for the pilots and that extending the age will help, I can certainly agree, however, what about the furloughed pilots? By extending the age over 60 will help you but it will really screw everyone below you on the senority list most of all the furloughees...

I also believe that I have certain expectations from my job. I expect that I might get furloughed one day, I expect that I might have to strike for a good contract, I expect that Ill have all kinds of ups and downs. One up is working less, making a suitable wage and retiring at the age of 60. Do I think its fair that I got started in my Civilian aviation career at the age of 40 and that some other pilot got hired at the age of 26. When Im 60 and they are 46, Im not going to expect them to change all the rules for me because I only got to spend 20 years as a "Major" pilot and they got to spend 34 and will make more money than me at the end of thier career.

Sorry we disagree, I respect everyone elses opinion, This is all about perspective.

Cya...BIGBROWNDC8

 

[FracCapt]

Yeah, I know Im lucky to be at UPS. I still have a job, thats lucky, but it doesnt mean it is a walk in the park to be a night guys.

Sorry dude, but I have to pipe up here....I spent years doing the night freight thing, and with your schedule and income potential, working nights should be NO PROBLEM. Granted, the first year pay SUCKS...and for some people nights are difficult, to say the least....but most of us would love the schedule/money potential(I feel you guys should make more, based on predominantly night flying), even though much of the flying is at night.

Traditionally, the freighters have prospered when the rest of the industry is in the crapper. Feel lucky that you are where you are, instead of on furlough like many thousands from the pax airlines.

 

[FoxHunter]

BIGBROWNDC8,

Today times have changed. When I started ALPA was against the age 60 rule. The rule actually came about because American lost an arbitration case over their intent to force an age 60 retirement on their pilots. ALPA won the case in arbitration only to see the rule imposed after the CEO of American request that his good friend, and first Administrator of the FAA fix his problem.

Today we see the pilot pension plan at USAIR terminated, UAL is next, Delta and NWA not far behind. The PBGC is itself in the red. The US taxpayer will have to make up any shortfall. This all becomes sort of the "Perfect Storm" for change.

The ALPA membership from UAL, Delta, and NWA, will force ALPA to return to their original position on the issue. Yes, this will impact anyone on furlough, but in the long run loss of these pensions will impact all, working or furloughed. The reality is when the guys still working are backed into a corner furloughed guys/gals have little influence. Furloughed pilots do not pay dues and have no vote.

 

[eddie]

If it's just political why even have a mandatory age?

 

[pilotyip]

as stated above, it is political

Two W.W.II General buddies (C. R. Smith head of AA and the first head of the FAA) did a deal to get rid of the high end of the pay scale at AA. This was done under the name of safety. I mean who can dispute safety. ALPA fought it and lost. Flash forward to 2000 when it was going to raise to 63 and ALPA fights against the raising of the age. It is all-political.

 

[SWA/FO]

SWAPA rules!

 

[NuGuy]

Hey guys,

A couple of things to consider...

1) If they raise it to 63, you can bet your bottom dollar that all those guys from 60-63 are going to be clamoring to get their jobs back. So whether you are at UPS, NWA, UAL, AAI, SWA or whoever, you could see YOUR number slide BACKWARDS a significant amount (maybe even into the hundreds, adding to any furloughs), PLUS the stagnation that will follow.

If you think that the argument that "they are already retired" will hold any weight, you will be sorely mistaken.

2) You can also bet cash money that the FAA will REQUIRE some sort of cognative testing to begin around 50-55. Chances are you won't make it to 60, let alone 63 because the FAA thinks you are too "slow" with whatever wack-a-doodle testing they come up with (probably that weird color test they used to give a PDT would be a good start).

Psych stuff is VERY difficult to objectively refute. Ask Bob Hoover how it went when they were out to get them. Better make sure your loss-of-medical insurance is paid up.

Be carefull what you wish for...

Nu

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Like I said, Its all about perspective... Ive got roughly 20 years left and am against changing the retirement age. Many guys I know getting ready to retire, disagree with me. A few I know agree and want to do nothing but retire when they hit 60. I stand by everything Ive said, its what I believe in and thats that...

Ive been in aviation for almost 16 years, I know the history on the maditory retirement age, thanks for the history lesson.

While were changing unfair rules, lets talk about this... I wonder how all you pilots out there wanting the retirement age to be changed to 63 or even 65 feel about JB wanting an exemption to the 8 hours day so they can fly turns from coast to coast with the same crew??? Hell, it helps the JB guys get better schedules. Why let this silly rule about a 8 hour flight day stand in the way of great schedules at JB. We're all selfish for trying to keep the most conservitive and safe rule. But then again, screw everyone else, its all about me... Right???

Im not sure if my analogy makes sence, but It does go right to the heart of the matter. Someone is going to get screwed here. Leave it like it is and it screws the old timers, change it to 63 or 65 and it screws most everyone else in the industry below the age of 55, not to mention the pilots on furlough and the ones that will be furloughed as a result of it. Im a union guy and as far as Im concerned, Im with the majority... In my humble opinion, more will get hurt by changing it then by not changing it. Its a tough reality for whomever ends up on the loosing side. If it gets changed, Ill learn to live with it.

 

[GCAP]

I'm surprised that there has been no mention here of the PPF appeal to be heard in the U.S. Court of Appeals on Sept. 13. Basically it has to do with exemptions to the age 60 rule, not extension to any specific age. All the debate here will be moot if the court finds for the appellants. You may be soon flying with your favorite 70 year old.

 

[46Driver]

Like I said, Its all about perspective... Ive got roughly 20 years left and am against changing the retirement age. Many guys I know getting ready to retire, disagree with me. A few I know agree and want to do nothing but retire when they hit 60. I stand by everything Ive said, its what I believe in and thats that...

Ive been in aviation for almost 16 years, I know the history on the maditory retirement age, thanks for the history lesson.

While were changing unfair rules, lets talk about this... I wonder how all you pilots out there wanting the retirement age to be changed to 63 or even 65 feel about JB wanting an exemption to the 8 hours day so they can fly turns from coast to coast with the same crew??? Hell, it helps the JB guys get better schedules. Why let this silly rule about a 8 hour flight day stand in the way of great schedules at JB. We're all selfish for trying to keep the most conservitive and safe rule. But then again, screw everyone else, its all about me... Right???

Im not sure if my analogy makes sence, but It does go right to the heart of the matter. Someone is going to get screwed here. Leave it like it is and it screws the old timers, change it to 63 or 65 and it screws most everyone else in the industry below the age of 55, not to mention the pilots on furlough and the ones that will be furloughed as a result of it. Im a union guy and as far as Im concerned, Im with the majority... In my humble opinion, more will get hurt by changing it then by not changing it. Its a tough reality for whomever ends up on the loosing side. If it gets changed, Ill learn to live with it.

The big point is that I don't think you have any right telling me when I have to retire - that should be a personal decision, albeitly with medical input from the doctor as well.

 

[jetflyer]

If I'm correct, raising the RETIREMENT AGE TO 63 only hurts people with PENSIONS correct??

So if you work at a Jet Blue, Southwest etc it doesn't hurt you at all. It actually helps you have another option of working more if you see that your INVESTMENTS haven't lived up to what you thought they would. I am actually for it since I don't work for a company with a PENSION.

I also don't plan on going to an airline with a pension anyways since those companies all seem to be in trouble financially. The people with pensions at those airlines are in great risk of losing them, and they all seem to be losing their regular pay anyways becoming LCCs themselves. The whole industry is changing.

Besides I bet if US Airways survives, the pilots there will be happy to be able to work a few more years, so they can STASH some CASH for their retirement, since their PENSIONS WERE ROBBED FROM THEM. The same will probably be said for United pilots soon UNFORTUNATELY.

JET