Age 63????

[FracCapt]

Yeah, I know Im lucky to be at UPS. I still have a job, thats lucky, but it doesnt mean it is a walk in the park to be a night guys.

Sorry dude, but I have to pipe up here....I spent years doing the night freight thing, and with your schedule and income potential, working nights should be NO PROBLEM. Granted, the first year pay SUCKS...and for some people nights are difficult, to say the least....but most of us would love the schedule/money potential(I feel you guys should make more, based on predominantly night flying), even though much of the flying is at night.

Traditionally, the freighters have prospered when the rest of the industry is in the crapper. Feel lucky that you are where you are, instead of on furlough like many thousands from the pax airlines.

 

[FoxHunter]

BIGBROWNDC8,

Today times have changed. When I started ALPA was against the age 60 rule. The rule actually came about because American lost an arbitration case over their intent to force an age 60 retirement on their pilots. ALPA won the case in arbitration only to see the rule imposed after the CEO of American request that his good friend, and first Administrator of the FAA fix his problem.

Today we see the pilot pension plan at USAIR terminated, UAL is next, Delta and NWA not far behind. The PBGC is itself in the red. The US taxpayer will have to make up any shortfall. This all becomes sort of the "Perfect Storm" for change.

The ALPA membership from UAL, Delta, and NWA, will force ALPA to return to their original position on the issue. Yes, this will impact anyone on furlough, but in the long run loss of these pensions will impact all, working or furloughed. The reality is when the guys still working are backed into a corner furloughed guys/gals have little influence. Furloughed pilots do not pay dues and have no vote.

 

[eddie]

If it's just political why even have a mandatory age?

 

[pilotyip]

as stated above, it is political

Two W.W.II General buddies (C. R. Smith head of AA and the first head of the FAA) did a deal to get rid of the high end of the pay scale at AA. This was done under the name of safety. I mean who can dispute safety. ALPA fought it and lost. Flash forward to 2000 when it was going to raise to 63 and ALPA fights against the raising of the age. It is all-political.

 

[SWA/FO]

SWAPA rules!

 

[NuGuy]

Hey guys,

A couple of things to consider...

1) If they raise it to 63, you can bet your bottom dollar that all those guys from 60-63 are going to be clamoring to get their jobs back. So whether you are at UPS, NWA, UAL, AAI, SWA or whoever, you could see YOUR number slide BACKWARDS a significant amount (maybe even into the hundreds, adding to any furloughs), PLUS the stagnation that will follow.

If you think that the argument that "they are already retired" will hold any weight, you will be sorely mistaken.

2) You can also bet cash money that the FAA will REQUIRE some sort of cognative testing to begin around 50-55. Chances are you won't make it to 60, let alone 63 because the FAA thinks you are too "slow" with whatever wack-a-doodle testing they come up with (probably that weird color test they used to give a PDT would be a good start).

Psych stuff is VERY difficult to objectively refute. Ask Bob Hoover how it went when they were out to get them. Better make sure your loss-of-medical insurance is paid up.

Be carefull what you wish for...

Nu

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Like I said, Its all about perspective... Ive got roughly 20 years left and am against changing the retirement age. Many guys I know getting ready to retire, disagree with me. A few I know agree and want to do nothing but retire when they hit 60. I stand by everything Ive said, its what I believe in and thats that...

Ive been in aviation for almost 16 years, I know the history on the maditory retirement age, thanks for the history lesson.

While were changing unfair rules, lets talk about this... I wonder how all you pilots out there wanting the retirement age to be changed to 63 or even 65 feel about JB wanting an exemption to the 8 hours day so they can fly turns from coast to coast with the same crew??? Hell, it helps the JB guys get better schedules. Why let this silly rule about a 8 hour flight day stand in the way of great schedules at JB. We're all selfish for trying to keep the most conservitive and safe rule. But then again, screw everyone else, its all about me... Right???

Im not sure if my analogy makes sence, but It does go right to the heart of the matter. Someone is going to get screwed here. Leave it like it is and it screws the old timers, change it to 63 or 65 and it screws most everyone else in the industry below the age of 55, not to mention the pilots on furlough and the ones that will be furloughed as a result of it. Im a union guy and as far as Im concerned, Im with the majority... In my humble opinion, more will get hurt by changing it then by not changing it. Its a tough reality for whomever ends up on the loosing side. If it gets changed, Ill learn to live with it.

 

[GCAP]

I'm surprised that there has been no mention here of the PPF appeal to be heard in the U.S. Court of Appeals on Sept. 13. Basically it has to do with exemptions to the age 60 rule, not extension to any specific age. All the debate here will be moot if the court finds for the appellants. You may be soon flying with your favorite 70 year old.

 

[46Driver]

Like I said, Its all about perspective... Ive got roughly 20 years left and am against changing the retirement age. Many guys I know getting ready to retire, disagree with me. A few I know agree and want to do nothing but retire when they hit 60. I stand by everything Ive said, its what I believe in and thats that...

Ive been in aviation for almost 16 years, I know the history on the maditory retirement age, thanks for the history lesson.

While were changing unfair rules, lets talk about this... I wonder how all you pilots out there wanting the retirement age to be changed to 63 or even 65 feel about JB wanting an exemption to the 8 hours day so they can fly turns from coast to coast with the same crew??? Hell, it helps the JB guys get better schedules. Why let this silly rule about a 8 hour flight day stand in the way of great schedules at JB. We're all selfish for trying to keep the most conservitive and safe rule. But then again, screw everyone else, its all about me... Right???

Im not sure if my analogy makes sence, but It does go right to the heart of the matter. Someone is going to get screwed here. Leave it like it is and it screws the old timers, change it to 63 or 65 and it screws most everyone else in the industry below the age of 55, not to mention the pilots on furlough and the ones that will be furloughed as a result of it. Im a union guy and as far as Im concerned, Im with the majority... In my humble opinion, more will get hurt by changing it then by not changing it. Its a tough reality for whomever ends up on the loosing side. If it gets changed, Ill learn to live with it.

The big point is that I don't think you have any right telling me when I have to retire - that should be a personal decision, albeitly with medical input from the doctor as well.

 

[jetflyer]

If I'm correct, raising the RETIREMENT AGE TO 63 only hurts people with PENSIONS correct??

So if you work at a Jet Blue, Southwest etc it doesn't hurt you at all. It actually helps you have another option of working more if you see that your INVESTMENTS haven't lived up to what you thought they would. I am actually for it since I don't work for a company with a PENSION.

I also don't plan on going to an airline with a pension anyways since those companies all seem to be in trouble financially. The people with pensions at those airlines are in great risk of losing them, and they all seem to be losing their regular pay anyways becoming LCCs themselves. The whole industry is changing.

Besides I bet if US Airways survives, the pilots there will be happy to be able to work a few more years, so they can STASH some CASH for their retirement, since their PENSIONS WERE ROBBED FROM THEM. The same will probably be said for United pilots soon UNFORTUNATELY.

JET