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Age 63????

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I am confident the law makers can and will shoot this down (once again), I have faith in them to a certain degree and I hope they realize this change will do nothing with regards to what is "best". This was shot down many times in the past and hopefully history will repeat itself a g a i n. There is absolutely no reason to up the age to 63 except for those who are nearing the age and cannot retire due to mismanaged funds, lack of, etc.

If one chooses to want to fly beyond 60 then go to ExecJet, Flight Options, or the many other places that would be more than happy and willing to hire a 60+ guy. . The reasons why anyone could possibly want to fly past 60 as a "job" is beyond my wildest imagination, I was never able to see the reasoning behind this.

You only live once and the body is only going to work for X amount of years as advertised so "retire" and enjoy your remaining years on this planet with family, friends, and loved ones. Take a look at the average life span here in the states, the majority surely will not see 100, probably not even 90, 80 possibly if you are healthy and stay in good shape, 70 the body slows down and you are limited to activity. . Let's get real folks, something is wrong with the "needing" to increase this age regulation. The whole "age discrimination" issue is also complete BS, I would be willing to bet any amount of money that IF (which hopefully will not be the case) the age would be changed to 63 many would still find fault and call it "age discrimination" once again, it is a loose loose situation. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. There is no more or any less of a significance between 63, 65, 70, so this "63" proposed change is to imply what?. Anything after 65 the pilot will no longer be fit enough to fly? Come on.. We are looking at a possible change that will only add to this whole "age discrimination" issue. This will solve absolutely nothing.


The majority that are in favor of this change are the guys who are in their 50's who have nothing else to do other than to fly. I don't get it, if you are that much financially strapped then surely 3 more years ain't going to make a whole lot of difference here. . A lot of this "fight'' is coming solely out of selfishness and not knowing when to say enough is enough. Allow the others to move up the ranks, advance, etc and to be able to make a living in this profession that Mr. 60 was able to do for the past 30-35 years.

The medicals are a joke, you are simply being counted on to come forward with any medical problems that you are currently (or have) had in the past, a sick monkey with a bleeding ulcer could probably hold a first class. I love how those people try and justify this by saying "as long as I can hold that medical" then I am perfectly fit to fly, blah, blah, blah, .... complete BS $$... It would probably take some sort of effort to even fail one of these medicals in the first place. The reflexes, mind and body starts to slow down as one ages, no one will defy the aging process no matter how good of shape you may be in.


Let the politics continue to play here. In due time hopefully the correct call will be made and no 63 will ever become a reality. I find it absolutely insane in every way when you have people whining and continuing to fight this. Why 63? Hell, why not just round up to 65 or 70?. That "63" represents nothing and the guys who are 62 will soon be pushing for 65. The older group of jet jocks will never be happy no matter what the age may be. As the ole saying goes, "if it ain't broke then don't fix it". Nothing is broke here, this is about greed and not knowing when enough is enough and when to say "good-bye" and adios to this industry.

If I have to fly one day past 60 then I surely screwed and fukced many things up over the years.

I sure hope this change will never be implemented....

History fortunately is on our side with regards to this issue....

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Dear 350DRIVER,

Happy your confident the law will not change. I realize the pilots of USAIR, UAL, DAL, NWA are guilty of poor retirement planning in your eyes. Some time in the future, when you start to mature, and possibly get hired as an airline pilot you may even start to understand why some of us would like to continue past age 60. :(

You are correct that that age 63 will not pass. It will probably be 65 or 66 if there is any age at all. Do you really think Congress will want to use taxpayer money when all these retirement funds are terminated and turned over to the PBGC.

Why would I like to continue? Number one reason is that I still enjoy flying. You mention other job options after age 60. Why would I want to give up a job that I earn more in one month than I would in a year at the options you mention? No young man, I plan to fly until I stop enjoying it, or my health requires me to quit. Since I run 25+ miles every week you can see that I'm working hard to stick around as long as possible.:D

Hope your half as lucky as I've been in this flying business.
 
FoxHunter said:
Dear 350DRIVER,

Happy your confident the law will not change. I realize the pilots of USAIR, UAL, DAL, NWA are guilty of poor retirement planning in your eyes. Some time in the future, when you start to mature, and possibly get hired as an airline pilot you may even start to understand why some of us would like to continue past age 60. :(

You are correct that that age 63 will not pass. It will probably be 65 or 66 if there is any age at all. Do you really think Congress will want to use taxpayer money when all these retirement funds are terminated and turned over to the PBGC.

Why would I like to continue? Number one reason is that I still enjoy flying. You mention other job options after age 60. Why would I want to give up a job that I earn more in one month than I would in a year at the options you mention? No young man, I plan to fly until I stop enjoying it, or my health requires me to quit. Since I run 25+ miles every week you can see that I'm working hard to stick around as long as possible.:D

Hope your half as lucky as I've been in this flying business.
For those who are whining about this extension, re read the above gentleman's comments about the PBGC and retirement funding. It's all about money folks. And when the lawmakers figure out there is a no cost method to allieviate the funding problems at the PBGC they will extend the retirement age. No doubt about it.

With the forthcoming collapse of USAir, and I personally believe that UAL will vanish (eventually) the burden of these carriers pension terminations will be the final nail in this issue. You can bet your last dollar the remaining legacy carriers will cry wolf and eventually do away with their plans to remain "competitive" If more distressed terminations occur. And they will. The A & B fund Retirement plans of the old days are gone forever.

For those that assume I personally want to fly past 60, I don't need the money but many do. Aside from the discrimination issue (it is) Uncle Sam needs to allow SS and medicare benefits when you are forced to retire. Some of you youngsters will have to wait until your 68 - 70 in the coming years for these to kick in.
 
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What's even more funnier is that the anti's will be the ones pushing for the law to change in their favor once they hit 50 and realize they only got so long to go before they gotta be asked to leave.

This issue goes beyond the legacy carriers and the regional pukes. Our company is about to go on the journey to getting a 121 certificate and ATR's, so all of the sudden we get stuck with this age 60 retirement rule. My staying till 65 doesn't affect none of you guys at all. Neither does it at any of the other cargo contractors out there that offer positions good enough to stay for a career.

As with most people that are going to stay in these types of 121 careers that are not at legacy carriers where people make MILLIONS during their stay, some of us are just starting to get where the money is good enough to make house payments halfway through our careers.

I think people that took care of their health and have active minds, should not be forced out by some arbitrary age limit specified by the government. IF the government is going to push me out of my job at age 60, they better have some way of compensating me for age descrimination.
 
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Pilotbob3 said:
I heard that ALPA has reversed its position on the age 60 subject and that it will go to 63...due to UAL guys losing a lot of money now.......supposedly a done deal for jan. 1, 2005......sucks if true.
ALPA can reverse it's opinion all day long....it's the FAA that still has to approve the change. It took 7 years to rewrite Part 61, about 5 years to come up with Subpart K (rules for fractionals), and they are currently rewriting FAR Part 135. Even if ALPA comes out in full, 100% support of Age 63, I wouldn't go cashing those checks just yet. The FAA moves at glacial speed and this topic wouldn't even be in the top 10 to look at.

Good Luck age 55+ guys
 
Time2Spare said:
ALPA can reverse it's opinion all day long....it's the FAA that still has to approve the change. It took 7 years to rewrite Part 61, about 5 years to come up with Subpart K (rules for fractionals), and they are currently rewriting FAR Part 135. Even if ALPA comes out in full, 100% support of Age 63, I wouldn't go cashing those checks just yet. The FAA moves at glacial speed and this topic wouldn't even be in the top 10 to look at.

Good Luck age 55+ guys
No it is Congress that will mandate the change. It almost passed last year with ALPA opposition and their political infuence. You should recall why we have TCAS today. Not because the FAA wanted it, they opposed it. Congress mandated it.
 
FoxHunter said:
Dear 350DRIVER,

Happy your confident the law will not change. I realize the pilots of USAIR, UAL, DAL, NWA are guilty of poor retirement planning in your eyes. Some time in the future, when you start to mature, and possibly get hired as an airline pilot you may even start to understand why some of us would like to continue past age 60. :(

You are correct that that age 63 will not pass. It will probably be 65 or 66 if there is any age at all. Do you really think Congress will want to use taxpayer money when all these retirement funds are terminated and turned over to the PBGC.

Why would I like to continue? Number one reason is that I still enjoy flying. You mention other job options after age 60. Why would I want to give up a job that I earn more in one month than I would in a year at the options you mention? No young man, I plan to fly until I stop enjoying it, or my health requires me to quit. Since I run 25+ miles every week you can see that I'm working hard to stick around as long as possible.:D

Hope your half as lucky as I've been in this flying business.

Mr. FoxHunter,

Whatever floats your boat my friend,. I as well as many others do not wish to have to fly for compensation after the age of 60, pretty simple. You must have very little to do to occupy your time when you are off. Most that are in the 50 to 60 range look forward to being able to retire and enjoy the "good life" that they worked so hard and for many years to be able to obtain. You have no idea how happy it makes me feel that you run 25+ miles every week! ! . "wow", you must be in some awesome shape, I also assume you are able to defy the aging process with such a dedicated workout routine?. I am glad you got to where you are today by "luck" as you put it, fortunately I have needed very little thus far and won't be looking to get "lucky" anytime soon. Sometimes it is better to be good versus being lucky.

I hope you fly till you are 90 if that is what you want to do, what a
retirement!! !!.

Happy your confident the law will not change. I realize the pilots of USAIR, UAL, DAL, NWA are guilty of poor retirement planning in your eyes.

May I make a suggestion?. If you want to put words in one's mouth then include all carriers such as AirTran, Frontier, AWA, Alaska, etc, etc. I don't recall where I made any mention that would directly tie "mismanaged" funds directly to those who are at Airways, DAL, UAL, or NWA.

good luck,

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FoxHunter said:
No it is Congress that will mandate the change. It almost passed last year with ALPA opposition and their political infuence. You should recall why we have TCAS today. Not because the FAA wanted it, they opposed it. Congress mandated it.
Ok, let's shine the light on this one - we have a Republican controlled Congress (i.e. pro business) and a Republican White House. Even IF Kerry wins in November, chances are we will still have a Republican Congress. So, assuming this to be the case, with the airlines sinking further everyday, and their lobbyists pressing hard for any help Congress can give, why would a pro-business Congress change a law that has stood for over 50 years that will hurt the airlines financially by keeping these guys on payroll at high salaries for 3 more years?

I don't see it happening. The support in Congress from pro-pilot advocates like Inhofe, Duncan, etc., aren't nearly enough to push this through when every airline will say "no thanks"

Flame away.
 
Time2Spare said:
Ok, let's shine the light on this one - we have a Republican controlled Congress (i.e. pro business) and a Republican White House. Even IF Kerry wins in November, chances are we will still have a Republican Congress. So, assuming this to be the case, with the airlines sinking further everyday, and their lobbyists pressing hard for any help Congress can give, why would a pro-business Congress change a law that has stood for over 50 years that will hurt the airlines financially by keeping these guys on payroll at high salaries for 3 more years?

I don't see it happening. The support in Congress from pro-pilot advocates like Inhofe, Duncan, etc., aren't nearly enough to push this through when every airline will say "no thanks"

Flame away.
No flame intended.:D Fact, the 12 year F/O upgraded to Captain same aircraft gets the same pay per hour as the 59 year old Captain that has 35 years service. That happens to be the ALPA standard contract. No extra high pay for the old guys. Sorry
 
350DRIVER said:
Mr. FoxHunter,

Whatever floats your boat my friend,. I as well as many others do not wish to have to fly for compensation after the age of 60, pretty simple. You must have very little to do to occupy your time when you are off. Most that are in the 50 to 60 range look forward to being able to retire and enjoy the "good life" that they worked so hard and for many years to be able to obtain. You have no idea how happy it makes me feel that you run 25+ miles every week! ! . "wow", you must be in some awesome shape, I also assume you are able to defy the aging process with such a dedicated workout routine?. I am glad you got to where you are today by "luck" as you put it, fortunately I have needed very little thus far and won't be looking to get "lucky" anytime soon. Sometimes it is better to be good versus being lucky.

I hope you fly till you are 90 if that is what you want to do, what a
retirement!! !!.



May I make a suggestion?. If you want to put words in one's mouth then include all carriers such as AirTran, Frontier, AWA, Alaska, etc, etc. I don't recall where I made any mention that would directly tie "mismanaged" funds directly to those who are at Airways, DAL, UAL, or NWA.

good luck,

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I didn't mention AirTran, Frontier, AWA plus others because they don't have an defined benefit pension.;)

Sorry your so misinformed.
 

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