Age 60 informal poll

[Klako]

The only significant opposition to changing the “Age 60 Rule” comes from the Airline Pilots Association (ALPA) and the Allied Pilots Association (APA). ". Now the FAA says that it is "NEUTRAL" as "safety" can no longer be used as a valid argument against changing the "Age 60 Rule".


The only reason why the “Age 60 Rule” is still around today is because of the persistent opposition from ALPA and APA, reflecting the “me now” attitude of their junior pilots. ALPA President Henry Duffy’s made this statement in the 1990 Baker v FAA “It has never been my belief that professional expertise diminishes at age 60: on the contrary, our senior members possess a wealth of knowledge, aviation history, and insight that have been developed through their years of experience, which are irreplaceable”. He also stated during this testimony “Pilots over 55 comprise 5-6% of the total membership. The other 95% selfishly view the forced retirement of older pilots as their guaranteed path and a God given right to their promotions !”

Safety is the smokescreen that the Airline Pilots Association (ALPA) and the Allied Pilots Association (APA) have been using to mask its blatant ageism that it directed against its most senior pilots by promoting institutionalized age discrimination as their accelerated job advancement scheme for its junior pilots.
In July 1979 Captain J. J. O’Donnell, then president of ALPA, testifies before the House Public Works and Transportation Committee: Congressman Anderson: “I gather from your testimony before the Select Committee on Aging that some of your members do not want to see the Age 60 Rule ended. Do those who oppose ending the age 60 rule do so on the grounds of safety or economics?” Captain O’Donnell; “ I would be misleading [to say that] they do it on the basis of safety. ... t is economics to those who object to the change in the regulation.”

Senior pilots have had their right to work flagrantly violated. What legitimate labor union would actively support such a rule that discriminates against its own members and forces them to leave their workplaces.

 

[Captainzero1]

No!.............get a hobby.

 

[Klako]

No!.............get a hobby.

Go back to watching your MTV and playing with your skate board.

Leave the flying to real experienced pilots!

 

[jbDC9]

Why should a 60 year old pilot be forced into poverty just so someone else can move up the seniority list?

It's been mentioned here dozens of times but you refuse to acknowledge it; most of the guys that retire at 60 have been steadily moving up the list to bigger and better equipment, seats and paychecks due to the guys above him reaching 60 and leaving. We all know the rule, and most everyone has benefitted from it by moving up the list. Yep, that includes the 50-something senior captains who now want the law changed.

When I hired on to my company, I was older than 90% of the pilots senior to me.

I, I, I... me, me, me. You've mentioned this several times in this never ending thread that you keep alive; it sucks to be in that situation, but that's the way it goes... now you want to change it to make your situation better. And you call the junior guys greedy and selfish?

 

[Phaedrus]

Leave the flying to real experienced pilots!

Klako: Boo-hoo. Forced into poverty. If you can't make it work in the time you've had, and knew you had coming in, your "experience" isn't real valuable, is it?
No puling.

 

[Benhuntn]

no

no wait I mean yes

no I mean ....what was the question?

 

[Andy]

Now the FAA says that it is "NEUTRAL" as "safety" can no longer be used as a valid argument against changing the "Age 60 Rule".

Post a link to that; I don't believe you.

 

[Gorilla]

I've mentioned it before but it bears repeating. There's a simple way to grandfather the rule.

If you have a CURRENT ATP of any variety, on a certain date, thou shalt retire at 60. If no ATP, feel free to fly til you die.

Not perfect, but grandfathering any law or rule is usually the fairest way.

And yes I have an ATP so I'll be waving bye-bye at 60. Thank goodness. I watched my father, a child of the depression, bust his a$$ for 50 years, denying himself small pleasures in life due to a sense of obligation to his family (saving money), finally retire to his dream lakefront home. He wanted to bass fish and kick back. He died in two years. Why is everyone so enamored of work, work, work? Do you really think you'll want an epitaph that reads "I wish I had picked up more flying when I could." ??

 

[AA717driver]

Gorilla--I understand your feelings completely. But, when Arpey or his successor files Ch.11 and your A plan goes bye-bye at age 59, you'll be trying to "enjoy" your retirement on the PBGC maximum of around $2800/mo.

Since no one is fixing Social Security, it'll be bankrupt by then and you'll be living on around (i'm guessing) 1/3 of what you'd planned on having at that point.

This isn't anything personal. But, at the same time, it's very personal. Those of us who, for whatever reason, have not had a champaigne career will have to work beyond age 60. Those coming into the business are just now realizing that there are no guarantees and "planning a career in aviation" is like trying to herd cats.

My friends at USAir and UAL who are in their last 5 years are staring at exactly the scenario I described above. Raising the age for retirement can literally save their lives. Sure it sucks to be stuck in the right seat for 5 more years or at a regional for the same period but if the choice is condemning a captain at a major airline to digging through the trash alongside the NWA furloughees or sticking someone in the right seat for a few extra years, I know what my choice is. TC

 

[Klako]

Congress may never vote a change to the age 60 rule only because Congress marches in lock step with the official policy of ALPA and APA.

The age 60 rule has been a curse on the airline industry for over 40 years. Because of the age 60 rule, pilots under age 50 will always represent the majority that depends upon the forced retirement of pilots over age 60 as essential to career progression. The majority will always command a system which eliminates competition from the minority. Life is like a roll of toilet paper, the closer you get to the end, that faster it unravels. The realization that the age 60 rule will adversely impact the remainder of one’s life comes too late as now age the 50+ group is the minority and they have lost the power to effect a change.

The idea that forced retirement is essential to promoting the welfare of the majority has an eerie foreshadowing of ageism themes illustrated in movies like Soylent Green and Logan's Run, where a person's maximum age is strictly legislated. When people reach an age limit, they are executed by a dystopian future society in which population and the consumption of resources is managed and maintained in equilibrium by the simple expediency of killing everyone upon reaching a particular age, thus neatly avoiding the issue of overpopulation.