After 5 years, Pinnacle put on ICE.

[Raoul Duke]

I am daydreaming here, but I would love to see 1000+ pilots go on strike - without union or NMB approval. What would the government do, put a thousand pilots in jail? If fired by the company, I wonder if they could be easily replaced these days.

I would like to see it happen. Just for the entertainment value. what about a good ol fashion sick out? I heard those are very effective.

 

[kellwolf]

Ah yes. Now I remember why I took a hiatus from FlightInfo. The jackasses.

I could care less what you made as a first year FO. Give me a break. Everything that really matters is what happens AFTER your first year. Suck it up and start at the bottom, just like everyone else.

So go ahead and care less. Or did you mean "couldn't care less?" Either way, spoken like a true upper seniority list ***********************************. I paid my dues, you should, too. Screw the junior guy as long as I get mine. I did start at the bottom, and I did suck it up at $21/hr. Does that make it okay and right for the next guy to be forced to do the same? I was under the impression we're trying to make it better for ALL pilots, not just the guys year 2+.

In regards to the first bold....how can anyone justify rampers getting paid more than ANY pilot!

Who was justifying anything? I made a statement of fact. I never said it was a justified thing.

If one is not going to base their vote on how a new president will deal with labor issues, which affects us more than most, what in the he** are you basing your vote on? Before I got involved in the airline industry, I voted based on social issues.

Social issues, which we appear to be polar opposites on.

Well, we still have runaway immigration, abortion, corruption, corporate greed, etc etc, so now I base my vote on the candidate that will at least support me in earning a wage appropriate for what I do.

Corruption and corporate greed need to be done away with, but I don't see anything wrong with immigration. It's the ILLEGAL stuff (which I don't understand why it's called "illegal immigration" when they aren't actually immigrating) that needs to be fixed. The laws are there, they just need to be enforced. I have zero problems with abortion. What someone else does with their body isn't any of my business. At the end of the day, I'm a person and not just a pilot. Fact is, I don't think any of the candidates care what we make or what wage we earn.

 

[pipejockey]

I have zero problems with abortion. What someone else does with their body isn't any of my business.

Oh no? Well I guess you were never a Father of an unborn child that would have raised and taken care of it if given a choice, or even told of the pregnancy. These women who use abortion as birth control knew that pregnancy was a potential outcome of intercourse. And the fact that they have the legal right to kill the unborn child without even getting the Fathers approval is abhorrent. The Fathers should have a legal right to take responsibility for the child before these women can kill it!

As far as immigration, well we are not a country that needs to be populated and grown anymore. We are a country that doesn't have the natural resources to continue to live the lifestyles we live and consume what we consume with an ever burgeoning population. We don't have enough jobs for over 10% of our current citizens. How can we possibly let in more? Immigration should be shut down cold!

And btw, I'm pretty darned tired of the majority of people we all work with on this job (not including pilots) speaking English as a second language. Where are all the natural born citizens in this industry. It's like I'm working in a friggin foreign country!

 

[buscap]

7500

7500

7500

(Thread hijack in progress)

 

[A-V-8]

I thought your Messiah, the great Obama, was going to change all this. Let me guess, this is still Bush's fault.

Two pilot groups have been released during his administration. There has got to be more to this story. Perhaps we should have trained negotiators in the room that are on the ALPA payroll that know what the hell they are doing.

Why do I pay dues at all if the work that actually matters to me is done by volunteers that work for free in their spare time? Get some folks that actually know what the hell they are doing.

I had a conversation with a guy who left his job as a negotiator at a corporation to be a pilot. He had some wise words. “You have pilots who know emotionally what they want negotiating with MBAs who know how to get what they want.” For the most part regional pilots as negotiators are as dangerous as management trying to fly airplanes.

I really don’t know how to start a union but if I did I would start one and this would be a cornerstone.

 

[JoeMerchant]

There is no one to turn to other than the NMB. They have the sole power to help the PCL pilots get to a contract. They have to get them on their side. There is no other way.

The last two ASA contracts were delivered without help from the NMB...How did that happen?

 

[pipejockey]

The last two ASA contracts were delivered without help from the NMB...How did that happen?

\

You're kidding right? It happened because the ASA pilots folded like origami. I mean really, look at the pay rates you guys got on a contract signed in the midst of heavy hiring at the regionals and ASA actually wanting to pay 1st year guys 2nd year pay just to attract even the most remotely qualified candidates. You'd think a contract signed during those times would be truly industry leading. But quite the contrary, you are 5 bucks behind Eagle at the 5 and 10 year pay steps, equal to express jets concessionary contract, equal to SkyWests, equal to Mesaba's, and less than RAH, PSA, Compass. I mean you're barely ahead of GoJet! How utterly sad. And remember folks, they have a contract that was signed when the company was so desperate to attract new hires they were willing to offer 2nd year pay, which of course ALPO put a stop to. See ALPO was going to get that in the new contract...LOL!

So that folks, is the reason ASA pilots get contracts without any help from the NMB. They have LOW standards for compensation. Oh but in their defense, they were able to bid successfully for the UAL flying. As long as they were undercutting everyone else, those low pay rates are justified I guess.

And the cycle of throat cutting continues!

 

[sinkrate]

Perhaps we should have trained negotiators in the room that are on the ALPA payroll that know what the hell they are doing.

They are in the room. Pilots won't listen to the lawyers because they won't tell the pilots what they want to hear. ALPA's Director of Representation, Mr. Bruce York, Esq. is the same labor attorney that forced all three of the TV networks to sign the same contract with the CWA, at the same time, in the same ceremony. He is very, very good at what he does.

 

[PCL_128]

The last two ASA contracts were delivered without help from the NMB...How did that happen?

I'm not familiar enough with what happened in your negotiations. But, it's important to note that the NMB doesn't have to necessarily release a pilot group in order to provide "help." Simply holding a meeting with the company in which they read them the riot act and tell them to start moving is enough to get most companies to start bargaining. That's "help" that the pilots might never even know took place, but it was still leverage created by the NMB, which is the only party that can truly create any real leverage under the RLA. Pilots believing that they can bully managements into dealing is nothing but fantasy. You can make things a bit uncomfortable for them by creating hassles such as informational picketing and putting up billboards, but the only thing that will really force them to deal is the NMB. Without having the NMB on your side, you're never getting anywhere unless management has their own reasons for wanting a deal, such as a major transaction (merger, IPO, large aircraft purchase, etc.)

ALPA's Director of Representation, Mr. Bruce York, Esq. is the same labor attorney that forced all three of the TV networks to sign the same contract with the CWA, at the same time, in the same ceremony. He is very, very good at what he does.

Agree completely (except Bruce used to work for AFTRA, not CWA). You won't find a better professional negotiator than Bruce York. Any pilot that ignores his advice needs his head examined. Sadly, many pilots think they know better than the pros.

 

[DGdaPilot]

Two pilot groups have been released during his administration. There has got to be more to this story. Perhaps we should have trained negotiators in the room that are on the ALPA payroll that know what the hell they are doing.

Why do I pay dues at all if the work that actually matters to me is done by volunteers that work for free in their spare time? Get some folks that actually know what the hell they are doing.

I had a conversation with a guy who left his job as a negotiator at a corporation to be a pilot. He had some wise words. “You have pilots who know emotionally what they want negotiating with MBAs who know how to get what they want.” For the most part regional pilots as negotiators are as dangerous as management trying to fly airplanes.

I really don’t know how to start a union but if I did I would start one and this would be a cornerstone.

This is a perfect example and one I see all the time. It just goes to show how uneducated some of the general membership is on the negotiating process with ALPA.


9/11 and economic downturn?? Pay raises for everyone! Yay!

 

[Smarta$$]

This is a perfect example and one I see all the time. It just goes to show how uneducated some of the general membership is on the negotiating process with ALPA.


9/11 and economic downturn?? Pay raises for everyone! Yay!

Management got their bonuses.....

 

[PCL_128]

Management got their bonuses.....

Management doesn't have to work through the RLA process to get their money. Their buddies on the company's Board of Directors just give it to them.