After 5 years, Pinnacle put on ICE.

[RJLoser]

Then replace them all.

 

[Smarta$$]

The only thing that matters is that the nmb is not helping us and the pilots are not putting pressure on the company.

 

[MississippiMud]

Pinnacle talks were open when I was in indoc in 2005. Fortunately, I bailed in '06 to NJA. The good news is, if you don't like your contract or the people representing you to get a contract that is fair, you can boot their ass out.

I still have a lot of friends at Pinchnickle so I am hoping for the best. The reality is, you can change your reality!! Find 5 well versed line pilots, FO's or Captains, that know the law, contract and management negotiation tactics......elect them as your new MEC. The only thing you have to do before that is get the largest majority of your pilots in the frame of mind to walk away and find another job, or have one of the best contracts that pinnacle can afford.

The answer is simple, getting the pilots to actually do it is the hard part. They have money because they are spending it to buy market share. To be a viable company it has to grow, so you can't get paid 100k as an FO because it is a young company, but you damn sure can make more than 25k. As they gain market share, increase profits, and stability then you can go for the 100+k FO.

As it stands now the captains should be at a minimum of 100k and the FO's 60k. Close the doors on that place if they don't play ball. Spend your hotel time learning contract negotiations and jump in there. You are not going to do any worse than the current MEC, that's for sure.

 

[1.3XVso]

Pinnacle talks were open when I was in indoc in 2005. Fortunately, I bailed in '06 to NJA. The good news is, if you don't like your contract or the people representing you to get a contract that is fair, you can boot their ass out.

I still have a lot of friends at Pinchnickle so I am hoping for the best. The reality is, you can change your reality!! Find 5 well versed line pilots, FO's or Captains, that know the law, contract and management negotiation tactics......elect them as your new MEC. The only thing you have to do before that is get the largest majority of your pilots in the frame of mind to walk away and find another job, or have one of the best contracts that pinnacle can afford.

The answer is simple, getting the pilots to actually do it is the hard part. They have money because they are spending it to buy market share. To be a viable company it has to grow, so you can't get paid 100k as an FO because it is a young company, but you damn sure can make more than 25k. As they gain market share, increase profits, and stability then you can go for the 100+k FO.

As it stands now the captains should be at a minimum of 100k and the FO's 60k. Close the doors on that place if they don't play ball. Spend your hotel time learning contract negotiations and jump in there. You are not going to do any worse than the current MEC, that's for sure.

Im requesting a motion to take everyone out.

 

[PCL_128]

Im requesting a motion to take everyone out.

The only thing a wholesale replacement of union reps would do is convince the NMB that the pilot group is fractured and unable to work together towards a deal. Bad idea.

 

[1.3XVso]

The only thing a wholesale replacement of union reps would do is convince the NMB that the pilot group is fractured and unable to work together towards a deal. Bad idea.

Well i'll tell you what. Our MEC isn't convincing me anything anymore so at this point i can careless what the NMB thinks.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Recessing negotiations usually means that the NMB is trying to pressure the union side to make some movement. So, the NMB will probably wait until the Association gives them some sort of indication that they're willing to move on some of the items of contention.

I thought your Messiah, the great Obama, was going to change all this. Let me guess, this is still Bush's fault.

 

[N813CA]

I guess your airline is so rich it can buy Mesaba so how about it pays you the contract you deserve?

 

[PCL_128]

I thought your Messiah, the great Obama, was going to change all this. Let me guess, this is still Bush's fault.

Your post implies that the NMB has done something wrong. I'm not so sure that that's the case.

 

[buscap]

Anyone at pinnacle who is unhappy with the state of the contract talks needs to simply grab a discrepency log and make their displeasure known.

It's the only tactic proven to work.

If anything, the Mesaba purchase has given you guys more leverage. The last thing management needs now is to fall on their diks right after big D has loaned them a buttload of cash.

 

[PCL_128]

Anyone at pinnacle who is unhappy with the state of the contract talks needs to simply grab a discrepency log and make their displeasure known.

It's the only tactic proven to work.

Really, really bad idea. Pinnacle management tracks discrepency entries for each pilot and takes note of any trends. If your write-ups spike, then they'll fire you. Not worth it. You're not going to win this one as a lone warrior. You need the support of the NMB. Take the necessary steps to get it. Illegal job actions will do the exact opposite.

 

[Flyprdu]

Really, really bad idea. Pinnacle management tracks discrepency entries for each pilot and takes note of any trends. If your write-ups spike, then they'll fire you. Not worth it. You're not going to win this one as a lone warrior. You need the support of the NMB. Take the necessary steps to get it. Illegal job actions will do the exact opposite.

I give you Example A of the scared mentality that has drug these negotiations out for 5+ years. He's still brainwashed even after 3 years gone.

I want to know what a union does, then? If you could explain to me what proactive things a union actually accomplishes... because, to be honest, a union is supposed to protect you through unified action... so no one is the "lone warrior."

What a joke.

*And please don't answer unions have "informational pickets in Duluth." My head might just explode.

 

[MississippiMud]

I give you Example A of the scared mentality that has drug these negotiations out for 5+ years. He's still brainwashed even after 3 years gone.

I want to know what a union does, then? If you could explain to me what proactive things a union actually accomplishes... because, to be honest, a union is supposed to protect you through unified action... so no one is the "lone warrior."

What a joke.

*And please don't answer unions have "informational pickets in Duluth." My head might just explode.

You are dead on brother! He is ok with bowing down and you want to stand up. Fearful vs Balls. Who will win?

 

[PCL_128]

I give you Example A of the scared mentality that has drug these negotiations out for 5+ years. He's still brainwashed even after 3 years gone.

It has nothing to do with being "scared." It's about what will really get you a contract instead of what will make you feel good temporarily.

I want to know what a union does, then? If you could explain to me what proactive things a union actually accomplishes... because, to be honest, a union is supposed to protect you through unified action... so no one is the "lone warrior."

The job of the union is to get you a fair contract. That won't be accomplished by a few guys writing up windshields in Moline. It will be accomplished by the MEC getting the NMB on their side and proffering the case so you can finally bring this thing to a head. Hopefully the MEC is asking the experienced attorneys in Herndon for advice. That's how this this will actually get finished.

You are dead on brother! He is ok with bowing down and you want to stand up. Fearful vs Balls. Who will win?

All balls and no brains will get you nowhere.

 

[e=mc2]

Union guys sound just like - Community Organizers.

And we all see what that Hopey Change got us.

 

[Flyprdu]

The job of the union is to get you a fair contract. That won't be accomplished by a few guys writing up windshields in Moline. It will be accomplished by the MEC getting the NMB on their side and proffering the case so you can finally bring this thing to a head. Hopefully the MEC is asking the experienced attorneys in Herndon for advice. That's how this this will actually get finished.

It saddens me how much your definition of a "union" has diminished since the origins of the first unions. They were scrappy and initiative....

... your definition makes me think they are all about preserving the status quo.

By the way, a proffer was requested almost 3 years ago. That definitely worked.

 

[Raoul Duke]

it did not work, in fact it got you nowhere except put on ice.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Just the fact alone that the laws allow for contract negotiations to drag on for an unlimited period of time is what is inherently wrong here.

 

[dondk]

Really, really bad idea. Pinnacle management tracks discrepency entries for each pilot and takes note of any trends. If your write-ups spike, then they'll fire you. Not worth it. You're not going to win this one as a lone warrior. You need the support of the NMB. Take the necessary steps to get it. Illegal job actions will do the exact opposite.

Sadly, I agree. There is no benefit to throw yourself on a sword. If you want to throw a MEC member though, now that is a different story

Mgmt has the upper hand if you if you attempt illegal job actions, they also have some people on their side that have seen it all. You cannot create anything new that will make them think twice.

The end to this is either the NMB or bending over, one will be painful, the other is painfully long.

A lone warrior is the person who steps outside the contract, the PNCL pilot group has plenty of them that do that every day by "doing all they can do". Unified is no one stepping outside the contract, no matter how inconvenient it would be to their schedule or paycheck. Unification starts with the membership, not with the leadership.

 

[sinkrate]

Hopefully the MEC is asking the experienced attorneys in Herndon for advice.

The MEC Chairman threw the 'experienced attorneys' out of the room, he didn't want the MEC to hear the advice

All balls and no brains will get you nowhere

One of the few things you have said that is right. Apparently the PCL MEC doesn't have either of the two.