After 5 years, Pinnacle put on ICE.

[buscap]

I would never advocate an illegal job action. We all know how much our collective flexibility contributes to the operational integrity of our respective carriers.

Flexibility means many things such as using your personal phone in the cockpit to expedite things, waiting until you get to a maintenance base to write things up, or perhaps not writing things up at all. (the maintenance "flexibility" can get you in trouble with the feds as is)

We all do those things and their contribution to the operation have been built into the schedules. My advice is simply to do your jobs by the book.

 

[redflyer65]

Most releases by the NMB are preceded by a short period of being on ice. Ice is just a step in the process leading to a cooling off period. I expect a PCL release in September.

The reality of what is going on is so far away from the above statement.

How many times does the PCL MEC need to be 'schooled' by the company before there is change? This new purchase of XJ now pushes an actual agreement to 2 more years! Not a release...

Seniority integrations will take at least a year, so you do the math.

I don't foresee the Pinnacle pilots seeing any change to their contract until late 2012 at the earliest, and the company has been completely successful in the way they have kept pushing it back. Really sad for the everyday line pilots. What has this MEC accomplished for them?

 

[Smarta$$]

The reality of what is going on is so far away from the above statement.

How many times does the PCL MEC need to be 'schooled' by the company before there is change? This new purchase of XJ now pushes an actual agreement to 2 more years! Not a release...

Seniority integrations will take at least a year, so you do the math.

I don't foresee the Pinnacle pilots seeing any change to their contract until late 2012 at the earliest, and the company has been completely successful in the way they have kept pushing it back. Really sad for the everyday line pilots. What has this MEC accomplished for them?

What can they legally do about it? What magical powers do they have?

What SPECIFICALLY would you do to solve the problem?

 

[popgoesbubble]

Pilots are dumb enough to mostly vote republican. Democrat presidents know this. They have no reason to help pilots. Pilots get what they vote for... Which is help for their CEOs and not themselves.

That doesn't mean anything based on what an individual votes. Its all based on how much the union ALPA, Teamsters, SEIU back and financially support there candidate. How many airlines got better contracts or where released to strike under a Republican (Bush) versus the Democrat (Clinton Obama?) I seem to recall Clinton using his emergency power to prevent the UPS pilots (Teamsters) from going on strike back in the late 90's only to allow American (APA and a much smaller union) to strike during the summer effecting summer travel. If you do your homework you will see that APA donated money and supported Clinton during both his 2 terms. If your such a big Obama supporter Pinnacle pilots then you should support his policy of redistribution under that plan you guys make plenty of money for what you do. Plus your support of his free health care plan is grounds enough that you are all now getting a raise as you don't have to pay a percentage of you health care so its money earned now. Making $60K as a captain is good money people.

For most of you this is your first job right out of college you don't have families to support or a home payment plus you all live in the Mid West its not like living in NYC or California where the cost of living is a lot higher. I'm sure your ground crew feel you guys make plenty of money just look how hard they work in the heat and cold loading bags in the elements compared to what you do which is sitting in a air conditioned plane thinking if your gonna get laid with that 19 year old FA this tour. Bottom line your not gonna see a new contract or pay raises for a long time with Obama in office.

 

[kellwolf]

For most of you this is your first job right out of college you don't have families to support or a home payment plus you all live in the Mid West its not like living in NYC or California where the cost of living is a lot higher. I'm sure your ground crew feel you guys make plenty of money just look how hard they work in the heat and cold loading bags in the elements compared to what you do which is sitting in a air conditioned plane thinking if your gonna get laid with that 19 year old FA this tour. Bottom line your not gonna see a new contract or pay raises for a long time with Obama in office.

FYI, I made more as a ramper than I did as a first year FO. Honestly, if you vote for president/senator/representative or even the local mayor based on single issues, you're doing it wrong. My vote was cast the way it was based on multiple issues, the LEAST of which involved getting a new contract at work.

Also, I'd say the US school system sucks at teaching grammar.....

 

[Smarta$$]

That doesn't mean anything based on what an individual votes. Its all based on how much the union ALPA, Teamsters, SEIU back and financially support there candidate. How many airlines got better contracts or where released to strike under a Republican (Bush) versus the Democrat (Clinton Obama?) I seem to recall Clinton using his emergency power to prevent the UPS pilots (Teamsters) from going on strike back in the late 90's only to allow American (APA and a much smaller union) to strike during the summer effecting summer travel. If you do your homework you will see that APA donated money and supported Clinton during both his 2 terms. If your such a big Obama supporter Pinnacle pilots then you should support his policy of redistribution under that plan you guys make plenty of money for what you do. Plus your support of his free health care plan is grounds enough that you are all now getting a raise as you don't have to pay a percentage of you health care so its money earned now. Making $60K as a captain is good money people.

For most of you this is your first job right out of college you don't have families to support or a home payment plus you all live in the Mid West its not like living in NYC or California where the cost of living is a lot higher. I'm sure your ground crew feel you guys make plenty of money just look how hard they work in the heat and cold loading bags in the elements compared to what you do which is sitting in a air conditioned plane thinking if your gonna get laid with that 19 year old FA this tour. Bottom line your not gonna see a new contract or pay raises for a long time with Obama in office.

I have no idea what you are trying to say. My point is that pilots get what they voted for, and that is NOT help from the NMB. If you are in any way saying that Bush was friendly to labor, you are out of your mind.

 

[1.3XVso]

you pinnacle cronies better pick up that On-time and A14 performance back up!~!!!!! :uzi:

 

[redflyer65]

What can they legally do about it? What magical powers do they have?

What SPECIFICALLY would you do to solve the problem?

I would start by asking your union what has been going on. It seems like they have been holding alot of info close to the vest and leaking only what they want the members to know, and when to know it.

My point is that maybe the MEC and those that lead it have done the pilot group an injustice in the way they have been operating. You can start with TA1 that should have never been sent for a vote. It was horribly sub-par. And it was sub-par because the company completely out maneuvered the union at every single turn.

 

[1.3XVso]

I would start by asking your union what has been going on. It seems like they have been holding alot of info close to the vest and leaking only what they want the members to know, and when to know it.

My point is that maybe the MEC and those that lead it have done the pilot group an injustice in the way they have been operating. You can start with TA1 that should have never been sent for a vote. It was horribly sub-par. And it was sub-par because the company completely out maneuvered the union at every single turn.

All they do is mimic or act like a chameleon on your tone. If you attack you get massacred by other union members.

 

[higney85]

I have always thought there are problems within a union (just as in any corporation, family, or group). Politics and personal agendas get in the way as folks move up the "chain". Unions are great at eating their own- it's almost a game of survivor with no prize at the end.

If you are PCL MEM based I think you would have a hard time claiming your reps won't talk to you and won't tell you "what's up". Neither the CA rep or myself is a politician so we will just tell you the truth and not worry about "what we told who". Plus, I'm not near smart enough to twist things to make things look rosy- there aren't enough pretty flowers to overtake the black sky that hangs over the landscape. Things aren't good but the sky isn't falling. It's going to take leadership and unity to turn things pretty. If you have enough time to get on here and knock the guys who spend their time working for you, you have enough time to call, text, or email to get answers and give you views/opinions/ideas. The conspiracy theories and crazy rumors at least breed entertainment.

 

[redflyer65]

Politics and personal agendas get in the way as folks move up the "chain".

Bingo!

 

[Regul8r]

Of course not. I'm suggesting that they take the necessary steps to get a fair contract that they will be happy with.



There is no one to turn to other than the NMB. They have the sole power to help the PCL pilots get to a contract. They have to get them on their side. There is no other way.

And how do they do this when the NMB has totally cockblocked them? The NMB is NOT on the side of the 9E pilots. Why is that so tough for you to understand?

 

[pipejockey]

FYI, I made more as a ramper than I did as a first year FO. Honestly, if you vote for president/senator/representative or even the local mayor based on single issues, you're doing it wrong. My vote was cast the way it was based on multiple issues, the LEAST of which involved getting a new contract at work.

Also, I'd say the US school system sucks at teaching grammar.....

In regards to the first bold....how can anyone justify rampers getting paid more than ANY pilot!

Second bold.....If one is not going to base their vote on how a new president will deal with labor issues, which affects us more than most, what in the he** are you basing your vote on? Before I got involved in the airline industry, I voted based on social issues. Well, we still have runaway immigration, abortion, corruption, corporate greed, etc etc, so now I base my vote on the candidate that will at least support me in earning a wage appropriate for what I do.

 

[rfa]

I am daydreaming here, but I would love to see 1000+ pilots go on strike - without union or NMB approval. What would the government do, put a thousand pilots in jail? If fired by the company, I wonder if they could be easily replaced these days.

 

[Raoul Duke]

FYI, I made more as a ramper than I did as a first year FO. Honestly, if you vote for president/senator/representative or even the local mayor based on single issues, you're doing it wrong. My vote was cast the way it was based on multiple issues, the LEAST of which involved getting a new contract at work.

Also, I'd say the US school system sucks at teaching grammar.....

I could care less what you made as a first year FO. Give me a break. Everything that really matters is what happens AFTER your first year. Suck it up and start at the bottom, just like everyone else.

Can someone confirm something that I heard about this abortion, did the PNCL MEC/NEG Cmtee kick the reps from ALPA National out of the negotiations? Seriously? How can anyone possibly think the NMB would not react harshly for such a stupid prank. The only thing that will restart this process is a complete recall ofthe MEC and the Neg Cmtee and their replacement with folks wanting to compromise and get a deal. Otherwise get used to being on ICE. Ask the Great Lakes guys how nice it is to be on ice for 5 or 6 years.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I am daydreaming here, but I would love to see 1000+ pilots go on strike - without union or NMB approval. What would the government do, put a thousand pilots in jail? If fired by the company, I wonder if they could be easily replaced these days.

I would like to see it happen. Just for the entertainment value. what about a good ol fashion sick out? I heard those are very effective.

 

[kellwolf]

Ah yes. Now I remember why I took a hiatus from FlightInfo. The jackasses.

I could care less what you made as a first year FO. Give me a break. Everything that really matters is what happens AFTER your first year. Suck it up and start at the bottom, just like everyone else.

So go ahead and care less. Or did you mean "couldn't care less?" Either way, spoken like a true upper seniority list ***********************************. I paid my dues, you should, too. Screw the junior guy as long as I get mine. I did start at the bottom, and I did suck it up at $21/hr. Does that make it okay and right for the next guy to be forced to do the same? I was under the impression we're trying to make it better for ALL pilots, not just the guys year 2+.

In regards to the first bold....how can anyone justify rampers getting paid more than ANY pilot!

Who was justifying anything? I made a statement of fact. I never said it was a justified thing.

If one is not going to base their vote on how a new president will deal with labor issues, which affects us more than most, what in the he** are you basing your vote on? Before I got involved in the airline industry, I voted based on social issues.

Social issues, which we appear to be polar opposites on.

Well, we still have runaway immigration, abortion, corruption, corporate greed, etc etc, so now I base my vote on the candidate that will at least support me in earning a wage appropriate for what I do.

Corruption and corporate greed need to be done away with, but I don't see anything wrong with immigration. It's the ILLEGAL stuff (which I don't understand why it's called "illegal immigration" when they aren't actually immigrating) that needs to be fixed. The laws are there, they just need to be enforced. I have zero problems with abortion. What someone else does with their body isn't any of my business. At the end of the day, I'm a person and not just a pilot. Fact is, I don't think any of the candidates care what we make or what wage we earn.

 

[pipejockey]

I have zero problems with abortion. What someone else does with their body isn't any of my business.

Oh no? Well I guess you were never a Father of an unborn child that would have raised and taken care of it if given a choice, or even told of the pregnancy. These women who use abortion as birth control knew that pregnancy was a potential outcome of intercourse. And the fact that they have the legal right to kill the unborn child without even getting the Fathers approval is abhorrent. The Fathers should have a legal right to take responsibility for the child before these women can kill it!

As far as immigration, well we are not a country that needs to be populated and grown anymore. We are a country that doesn't have the natural resources to continue to live the lifestyles we live and consume what we consume with an ever burgeoning population. We don't have enough jobs for over 10% of our current citizens. How can we possibly let in more? Immigration should be shut down cold!

And btw, I'm pretty darned tired of the majority of people we all work with on this job (not including pilots) speaking English as a second language. Where are all the natural born citizens in this industry. It's like I'm working in a friggin foreign country!

 

[buscap]

7500

7500

7500

(Thread hijack in progress)

 

[A-V-8]

I thought your Messiah, the great Obama, was going to change all this. Let me guess, this is still Bush's fault.

Two pilot groups have been released during his administration. There has got to be more to this story. Perhaps we should have trained negotiators in the room that are on the ALPA payroll that know what the hell they are doing.

Why do I pay dues at all if the work that actually matters to me is done by volunteers that work for free in their spare time? Get some folks that actually know what the hell they are doing.

I had a conversation with a guy who left his job as a negotiator at a corporation to be a pilot. He had some wise words. “You have pilots who know emotionally what they want negotiating with MBAs who know how to get what they want.” For the most part regional pilots as negotiators are as dangerous as management trying to fly airplanes.

I really don’t know how to start a union but if I did I would start one and this would be a cornerstone.