Abx?

[LarryinTN]

I doubt that there will be a foreign domicile. Just too many problems and complexities that management hasn't though about. Then, when they try to sell it to the pilot group, they receive a very cold reception when they can't answer any of the crew's questions. I'd bet on either a LAX domicile or an international division in ILN.

I believe that the e-board is well aware of the problem of someone getting stuck in this and being unable to get out. I think a way out will be high on their priority list.

 

[LarryinTN]

And I speak as one who is actually interested in bidding this; I am willing to move over there.

That's good! Are you senior to me?

 

[xspud]

That's good! Are you senior to me?

Hmmmm...that's hard to say.

I CAN say that there's WAY too many folks that I'm NOT senior to!

 

[penguin22]

We need to negotiate an ability to downbid, so the junior folks can get out of a domicile, that no one wants.

Who says you can't downbid? You can ... I think you're limited to one downbid in your career, but I don't know why you'd need more than that.

 

[GoABX]

The downbid option is due to the fact the 76 is STILL considered a "new" aircraft b/c the company wants to continue to hose us with the 76 scheduling side letter. Otherwise, this issue is still irrelevant as being junior manned into a seat is not the same as bidding the seat and then trying to downbid.

 

[xspud]

I can only find 2 instances of "downbidding" in the contract:

1) Anyone in any seat can bid the 767 because it's "new" equipment. A.21,S.H

2) A surplus crewmember can bid into any equipment, seat or domicile and bump a junior crewmember. A.11, S.F

So a crewmember who is assigned the 767 (because a vacancy is unbid per A.11,S.E) does not have the right to bid the DC9 even if there is a vacancy. They could bid the 767 in another domicile (obviously wouldn't happen for a long time).

That's the way I read the contract, do I have it right?

 

[scarface]

You got it right.

 

[freighthound]

If they open this domicile the way they did Miami under Art 14.B.2. then they would take only those currently qualified in type and seat. If this is the case then the junior 767 Captains and F/Os would be the ones to get hosed. It would be a stretch for management to try and say this new domicile would not affect manning levels but then again look at their track record.

 

[GoABX]

Are they going to wait for 'authority' before they proffer and spool up? It takes 6-8 weeks to make a crew member. Hopefully, they don't wait until approval and then just plan on hosing the current crews and backfill. It's not like the 4 planes we are getting in the next 3 months can be autopiloted or radio controlled.

 

[DC-9er]

I can only find 2 instances of "downbidding" in the contract:

What about T.H. in Fla. Didn't he downbid to 767FO?

 

[xspud]

What about T.H. in Fla. Didn't he downbid to 767FO?

Per example 1 in my post, anyone can bid from any seat to 767FO because it's a "new" aircraft. Per example 2, a Captain could bid 767FO (or even DC8/DC9FO) if they were being surplused.

 

[xspud]

It would be a stretch for management to try and say this new domicile would not affect manning levels but then again look at their track record.

Sorta like, just because the contract says you "will meet to determine the changes necessary in this article to facilitate such a move" doesn't actually mean that you have to negotiate or anything (A.14,S.F Domicile Outside The Contiguous United States).

When I first heard about this Japan domicile idea, I pulled out the contract, read that paragraph and thought, "Well that's pretty clear." Wrong again!

 

[freighthound]

xspud is correct. When surplused you can go to any seat where you are senior to someone in that seat. He is also correct concerning the 767 F/O seat. Since it is still considered a new plane anyone senior enough to be awarded a 767 F/O bid will be awarded that bid, that includes Captains of any of the airplanes. In the past when any upgrade vacancies have not been bid the company has brought new hires into those positions. It was common years ago for DC-8 F/O vacancies to not be bid and the company would bring new hires into these seats. These individuals were never allowed to bid back to the DC-9. The company has the option to assign crewmembers in reverse order of seniority to fill unbid vacancies instead of hiring. They could use this method to fill 767 F/0 seats with DC-9 F/O's thereby not exposing themselves to having DC-8 F/O upgrading and leaving the DC-8 undermanned.

 

[ABXbooger]

latest "news" has the Japan domicile out.

Earnings were good, hopefully more good news on the way.

 

[LarryinTN]

Sorta like, just because the contract says you "will meet to determine the changes necessary in this article to facilitate such a move" doesn't actually mean that you have to negotiate or anything (A.14,S.F Domicile Outside The Contiguous United States).

We have presented the company with a section six opener on the foreign domicile. I wouldn't be surprised if that scares them away from the idea of creating the domicile in Japan.