ABX furloughs

[SkyMiles]

Heard a rumor that 9-10 DC9 F/O's just got furloughed. Anyone hear anything?

 

[ABXbooger]

yep. enjoy all the OPF...

 

[SkyMiles]

seems fishy that there is a lot of pushback on the 23/23 ana schedules then all of a sudden, furloughs.

 

[ABXbooger]

Funny thing is, most of the people screaming the loudest are senior enough to not have to go to Japan if they don't want to. Why? I think it is because they want to "say" they have flown overseas, but not have to do the 23 day stuff. All ego.

OPF at 13% pre-schedule drop in all seats except 9FO, so add in CRM/PC's and vacation and that will easily exceed 13%.

I am sure the union will step up and do the right thing, they did the last time there were furloughs...

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

Heard a rumor that 9-10 DC9 F/O's just got furloughed. Anyone hear anything?

Why??? With the ANA deal in place and going to happen in one form or another, one would think you're gonna need all the bodies you can lay your hands on. Is Mgt. taking hostages to twist your negotiators arms??

Either way, it's bull$#!%. Both our groups have to live and work in the Corn Field, and no one likes to see this crap happen to anyone.
Hope all your peeps get to come home soon.

FAJ

 

[Sporto]

My entire time being at ABX I had never felt better regarding staffing levels/proffers. This was a real curveball.

 

[SkyMiles]

May 8: 10 Furloughs of DC9 F/O's
May 8: 767 proffer closes
May 9: requested date to have approval for holding co.
May 10: earnings and conference call

Are they related? Stock price continues to drop. Is there going to be some big or bad news on thurs? Or just saber rattling?

 

[Jurassic Jet]

May 8: 10 Furloughs of DC9 F/O's
May 8: 767 proffer closes
May 9: requested date to have approval for holding co.
May 10: earnings and conference call

Are they related? Stock price continues to drop. Is there going to be some big or bad news on thurs? Or just saber rattling?

I'm sure it's probably some of both. Word is about 130 ABX managers/admin people got the pink slip today as well. I would possibly expect an earnings miss so the furloughs/layoffs are to show the shareholders proactiveness at the meeting tomorrow (although I'm pretty sure we know the real reason for the pilots).

 

[TWA]

Any idea how long this one will last? BTW, what does this bring the total furlough to?

 

[ABXbooger]

10 today with 5 still on furlough from 2000, plus the PFE's (?)

 

[SkyMiles]

any rumors floating around about dhl releasing all dc9's? read it on the yahoo "finance rumor" board.

 

[cheyflyer]

I thought I just read on here about a week or so ago that ABX was gearing up to hire!

 

[DC-9er]

Funny thing is, most of the people screaming the loudest are senior enough to not have to go to Japan if they don't want to. Why? I think it is because they want to "say" they have flown overseas, but not have to do the 23 day stuff. All ego.

OPF at 13% pre-schedule drop in all seats except 9FO, so add in CRM/PC's and vacation and that will easily exceed 13%.

I am sure the union will step up and do the right thing, they did the last time there were furloughs...

Do you blame EVERYTHING on the senior pilots? How about global warming? No opf will just put all the extra flying on the bottom of the list. Just like 1997. It all still gets covered.

 

[Box-Hauler]

Do you blame EVERYTHING on the senior pilots? How about global warming? No opf will just put all the extra flying on the bottom of the list. Just like 1997. It all still gets covered.

I would beg to differ. If everyone, (that means unity) would not bid open time, stop the vacation buy back and not allow the company to junior man, then there would be no way to cover all the flying. The DC9 captain side alone had 14 line of flying droped into open time. I know you will then say how can you not allow the company to junior man. Don't accept the trip. They cannot charge you a sick day on an X day. They cannot tell me I have had adaquate rest. I do not have to answer the phone. We allow the company to act this way and allow them to abuse us for 4.5 hrs of pay. Wake up. Listen to the adio archive. Listen to John Dolls presentation. United we stand divided we fly 23 extended into 30 days in Japan.

 

[DC-9er]

I would beg to differ. If everyone, (that means unity) would not bid open time, stop the vacation buy back and not allow the company to junior man, then there would be no way to cover all the flying. The DC9 captain side alone had 14 line of flying droped into open time. I know you will then say how can you not allow the company to junior man. Don't accept the trip. They cannot charge you a sick day on an X day. They cannot tell me I have had adaquate rest. I do not have to answer the phone. We allow the company to act this way and allow them to abuse us for 4.5 hrs of pay. Wake up. Listen to the adio archive. Listen to John Dolls presentation. United we stand divided we fly 23 extended into 30 days in Japan.

Doesn't work. They don't need to call you for junior manning. you're told about a junior man assignment days/weeks in advance, when your already flying. THAT's what needs fixed.

 

[Box-Hauler]

I understand that, but an X day is an X day. Unable to fly still means unable to fly, even if it is a week in advance. If you do not want to play hardball with a scheduler than take the day back. In one month there would be no one left. The company would owe so many days back that the sort would stop.

When we (the union) gets tough then this will stop. PERIOD

 

[ABXbooger]

Do you blame EVERYTHING on the senior pilots? How about global warming? No opf will just put all the extra flying on the bottom of the list. Just like 1997. It all still gets covered.

I love it! When the senior guys actually are asked to do the stand up thing, they get all coy and smart. Then they will tell us they built this place from the ground up and they deserve it. Then they will say " oh, it doesn't matter if we don't bid OPF, it will all get assigned bottom 75 bottom 50 then we all get screwed". BULL.

Didn't we win a lawsuit filed by the company in 1997 about OPF?

And if you don't want to do a junior man assignment, I guarantee their is a way to get out of it, regardless of how it is assigned. How many sick days do you have?

Face it- if your not bulking up for retirement, you are living above your means if you MUST fly OPF every month.

I'm tired of the excuses, guys are losing their jobs so a lot of guys can buy toys!

 

[Box-Hauler]

Well said, much more articulate than I could have said it. Mine would have used curse words and such...........

Now is the time to show where you stand. This is black and white. If no open flying vacations or JA is allowed then we will cripple the company. They will not furlough, they will negotiate and we will get the contract that is what the pilot group as a whole wants. Unity. What a novel idea: Maybe we should try it once and see....................

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

Unity? That's asking for a bit too much. It never really has been a union of dues paying equals; a few too many special interest groups have always had their own agendas to fly in the face of unified action for a common goal. The limitations imposed by not being unified have continually been present although it takes a crisis to expose the fault lines.

 

[hvydriver]

Doesn't work. They don't need to call you for junior manning. you're told about a junior man assignment days/weeks in advance, when your already flying. THAT's what needs fixed.

You've got to be joking me. Could you explain how that makes any difference? I realize that we as pilots have a long history of "eating our own", but that is just ridiculous. I've been at Astar/DHL/Acme Air Cargo for 17 years. I've never not been able to get out of a junior man situation if I wanted to. And if it meant some guy was going to lose his job if I didn't get out of it, I'd sure want to.

 

[ABXbooger]

Hvydriver, first off thanks for the support. At ABX, we have allowed the company the leisure of junior manning weeks in advance by way of a letter in your at work mailbox. They cannot charge you a sick day if you call in sick because it is already a day off.

Bottom line is that if a guy doesn't want to fly he can get out of it. Problem is, too many people look at it as HUGE MONEY and can't bring themselves to do it.

I suggest we return the favor and project weeks in advance when we will not be coming to work. Don't know how they can look at a schedule 3 weeks from now and know that between now and then nobody will pick up that trip etc.

 

[J3CubDriver]

It makes me sick and laugh at the same time to hear how OPF ban doesn't work. Remember 1997. Remember guys many of us have flown for other airlines and OPF bans do work. Sacrafice a little in the short term for future gains. I can't help that some of you need 5-10 days OPF to break even. Who's fault is that! You may have to sell that corvette, but how about the furloughed hostage that can't make his house payment. It's time to be a team and work as a team.

 

[ke4lir]

It makes me sick and laugh at the same time to hear how OPF ban doesn't work. Remember 1997. Remember guys many of us have flown for other airlines and OPF bans do work. Sacrafice a little in the short term for future gains. I can't help that some of you need 5-10 days OPF to break even. Who's fault is that! You may have to sell that corvette, but how about the furloughed hostage that can't make his house payment. It's time to be a team and work as a team.

Thanks J3CubDriver, the house just went on the market. Wish you all the best!

 

[DC-9er]

I was actually more ticked at the jab at senior pilots. So they're to blame for the ANA schedule?

ANd it always jerks me when, until this morning, the first DC9 guys to b!tch about the open flying were ALWAYS the ones too junior to get ANY. Yes, I mean you, B.W. and you, R.W. Now they're the ones who'll get the JM calls.

 

[ABXbooger]

no, I'm not saying they are to blame for the ANA stuff, but the people who seem to be trying to derail not only the 23 days stuff but the whole ANA deal are so senior that there would be almost no conceivable way they would have to do it. That is why I think they want to do it, just on their own agenda.

I have never bid one day of OPF, or sold any vacation, it's been a moral issue for me since I spent 2.5 years on furlough. We still have guys on furlough from 2000.

 

[AV8OR]

WOW, JM weeks in advance? That's incredible. Apparently poor planning on their part DOES constitute an emergency on your part.

We at AStar of course will fully support any legal job action.

 

[Sporto]

I was actually more ticked at the jab at senior pilots. So they're to blame for the ANA schedule?

ANd it always jerks me when, until this morning, the first DC9 guys to b!tch about the open flying were ALWAYS the ones too junior to get ANY. Yes, I mean you, B.W. and you, R.W. Now they're the ones who'll get the JM calls.

That's the spirit 9er! Now if only we can get 600 other guys and gals to commit we might have a real impact. Never the less, My family and I thank you.

 

[Box-Hauler]

I was actually more ticked at the jab at senior pilots. So they're to blame for the ANA schedule?

ANd it always jerks me when, until this morning, the first DC9 guys to b!tch about the open flying were ALWAYS the ones too junior to get ANY. Yes, I mean you, B.W. and you, R.W. Now they're the ones who'll get the JM calls.

Wow,
And this is why we have no unity. I know I could hold open time, I choose to live below my income level. I choose family and friends over whoreing myself out for 4.5. Is it too much to ask for 1 or 2 months of no opf and vacation buy back.

I guess you will be sending all your opf money to the guys on the streets to pay for their toys.......you know food, shelter, health insurance. The really cools stuff..........

I learned in kindergarden right and wrong. Maybe you should audit the class.

P.S. I have always bitched about the opf flyig from this group of pilots, whether I was senior or junior.

 

[GoABX]

Just to be clear, we are in status quo and we will conduct no job action.

Several members are realizing that it is morally unacceptable to do the work of another man, when pilots are being forced out work because the company claims there is not enough work to keep them on the payroll. This is a personal decision.

Additionally, constantly changing one's circadian rhythm makes this job extremely challenging. So when your schedule unexpectantly changes due to being forced to fly when you were expecting to be off; it makes sleep planning and management impossible. Eventually exhaustion and fatigue set in. Hopefully no one pushes safety in fear of management reprisals. When a pilot judges himself to be too fatigued to safely perform his duties, it is a personal decision. The company can't tell him he is rested and the union can't tell him he is tired. Both would be wrong. It is a personal decision.

When I heard the bad news I thought here we go again. But I have been surprised by a larger number of senior overtimers who have pledged to stop doing things that facilitate the layoff of fellow workers.

For those on the fence, it is never too late to do the right thing.

I think one of the reasons this time might be different is that many pilots feel the company violated a trust. Given the high frequency of junior manning and the company's reliance on people flying open time; there is no arguing that the airline is not under-staffed. There has been a lot of going the extra mile over the past 4 years so ABX could save money and look good for DHL. The pilots were also pretty open minded on creative ways to make ANA work. Now, in the 11th hour of negotiations and ANA kicking off we get a punch in the stomach. A lot of goodwill was killed in one day.

 

[two(2)%]

When I heard the bad news I thought here we go again. But I have been surprised by a larger number of senior overtimers who have pledged to stop doing things that facilitate the layoff of fellow workers.

.

Let's just see where our friends The Penquin and Erich Hartmann stand on this issue shall we? Please stop rationalizing furloughs as a rite of passage just because it happened to you in the past. As long as the nifty fifty entitlement sentiment exists, our young gazelles get slaughtered.

Somehow at least 95% of the membership must adhere to this concept. The problem is that some in our group may observe others who wouldn't normally obtain overtime basking in their windfall and the whole self-imposed ban goes to scratch.