AAI to SWA Training Schedule

[redflyer65]

Like pretending AirTran was a similar job to Southwest?

I think Wave pretty much got it right...


Keep f^cking that chicken PCL
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp-xl13CSyU

(Doesn't make it any less full of sh/t)

 

[PCL_128]

Like pretending AirTran was a similar job to Southwest?

I would never insult AirTran by saying that it was similar to Southwest.

 

[Candide]

Only a complete moron would try to use pay to justify a loss in seniority.

Yet you sacrificed your Gulfstream seniority to go to Pinnacle. And then you walked away from your Pinnacle seniority to go to Airtran. These acts weren't just the loss of some seniority slots, they were a complete loss of all seniority and the ability to exercise any rights you once held on the seniority list.

I'm quite certain these transitions were motivated by pay; however, I would describe these as acts of a rational person, not a "complete moron."

 

[Kenney G]

Yet you sacrificed your Gulfstream seniority to go to Pinnacle. And then you walked away from your Pinnacle seniority to go to Airtran. These acts weren't just the loss of some seniority slots, they were a complete loss of all seniority and the ability to exercise any rights you once held on the seniority list.

I'm quite certain these transitions were motivated by pay; however, I would describe these as acts of a rational person, not a "complete moron."

Maybe he felt that AirTran was a career destination. Many AirTran guys believed that and enjoyed it and never intended to move on.

 

[PCL_128]

Exactly.

 

[Candide]

So were you or weren't you a "complete moron" when you gave up seniority for more pay?

 

[madjack]

Many of your peers felt differently and left AAI, for SWA (and then got junior AAI placed over them)

 

[PCL_128]

So were you or weren't you a "complete moron" when you gave up seniority for more pay?

Seniority arbitrations are done by category and status for a reason. Pay rates may fluctuate up and down over time to some extent, and which carrier is on top at any given year changes constantly. But a narrowbody job is a narrowbody job. An RJ job doesn't compare, and neither does a 747 job. That's why arbitrators don't slot them together. For the same reason, leaving an RJ operator to go to a 717/737 operator is not comparable to giving up seniority for pay when merged with another narrowbody operator. You know this. Don't pretend otherwise.

 

[PCL_128]

Many of your peers felt differently and left AAI, for SWA (and then got junior AAI placed over them)

Many? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

 

[Candide]

PCL 128 is a SWA hater. And that's OK.

I really don't mind. He was a SWA hater before the deal, so in a way, I admire his consistency.

Funny thing about hate, though. It clouds your judgement. It makes you walk away from a career at a new company that is worth seven figures more than the previous. It makes you eschew a new company known for great QOL and job security out of spite, although your old company had notoriously toxic management relations and questionable long term security.

Hate clouds one's judgement, and it can have devastating effects on one's personal life. But at least PCL's hate has only impacted his own situation.

 

[afhercdriver]

Seniority arbitrations are done by category and status for a reason. Pay rates may fluctuate up and down over time to some extent, and which carrier is on top at any given year changes constantly. But a narrowbody job is a narrowbody job. An RJ job doesn't compare, and neither does a 747 job. That's why arbitrators don't slot them together. For the same reason, leaving an RJ operator to go to a 717/737 operator is not comparable to giving up seniority for pay when merged with another narrowbody operator. You know this. Don't pretend otherwise.

Just asking the question. Isn't the 717 listed as a regional jet by Boeing? I thought I saw something like that on their website. Just curious.

Jim

 

[redflyer65]

The CA pay at Pinnacle was 65-70/hr and the max pay at AirTran in the right seat (which he never reached) was 79/hr. Other than not commuting, the hourly pay rate was never recovered from leaving Pinnacle.

Well, except for the ALPA gig and $3,000 dinners..

which he needed to commute for. Go figure.

 

[PCL_128]

Just asking the question. Isn't the 717 listed as a regional jet by Boeing? I thought I saw something like that on their website. Just curious.

Jim

I don't believe so. The DC-9-10 was advertised like that way back when it was introduced, though.

Regardless, marketing and names means nothing. It's an aircraft with 117 seats in a 2-class configuration. No different than a 737.

 

[Kenney G]

The CA pay at Pinnacle was 65-70/hr and the max pay at AirTran in the right seat (which he never reached) was 79/hr. Other than not commuting, the hourly pay rate was never recovered from leaving Pinnacle.

Well, except for the ALPA gig and $3,000 dinners..

which he needed to commute for. Go figure.

$79 hr? Currently is about 115 hr. plus that included an 10.5 DC that Swa took away. Meaning compensation would have been around low 120's. I know you ONLY look at pay rates and hypothetical ones at that. Should we use Swa pay rates pre fuel hedging then?

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I don't believe so. The DC-9-10 was advertised like that way back when it was introduced, though.

Regardless, marketing and names means nothing. It's an aircraft with 117 seats in a 2-class configuration. No different than a 737.

Some operators only have one class configuration in their 73's. Kind of like a commuter rj or turbo prop.

 

[redflyer65]

$79 hr? Currently is about 115 hr. plus that included an 10.5 DC that Swa took away. Meaning compensation would have been around low 120's. I know you ONLY look at pay rates and hypothetical ones at that. Should we use Swa pay rates pre fuel hedging then?

How about we use the pay rates on the announcement of purchase? You good with that, or you want to make up some other number that you weren't getting paid Sept. 2010?

Why would we use any other pay rate than what we were receiving Sept 2010? Same as AirTran.

 

[Candide]

Seniority arbitrations are done by category and status for a reason. Pay rates may fluctuate up and down over time to some extent, and which carrier is on top at any given year changes constantly. But a narrowbody job is a narrowbody job. An RJ job doesn't compare, and neither does a 747 job. That's why arbitrators don't slot them together. For the same reason, leaving an RJ operator to go to a 717/737 operator is not comparable to giving up seniority for pay when merged with another narrowbody operator. You know this. Don't pretend otherwise.

I would not take a pay cut to fly a B-777 nor would I turn down a pay raise to fly a C-152.

The fundamental nature of employment is service for recompense. The type of equipment the employer provides for your job is immaterial. A construction worker cares only about his pay and benefits, not about whether he operates the big crane or the back hoe. A taxi-cab driver would prefer to drive the Lincoln, but will gladly drive the Chevy if it pays more.

Airline CEOs base their pay on what they can negotiate, not on whether or not their company flies RJs, 737s, or A-380s. I've never heard Brian Bedford refer to himself as an RJ CEO.

The pilot unions' fixation on equipment type resulted in the regional whipsaw that has transferred billions of dollars from labor to management over the past couple of decades. Shiny Jet Syndrome is a pervasive cancer in this profession. We've let how big and how shiny an airplane is disrupt the economic principles of supply/demand and qualification/experience in determining pay rates and "status."

 

[redflyer65]

Some operators only have one class configuration in their 73's. Kind of like a commuter rj or turbo prop.

True. And also operate a -800 in one configuration that seat 175 people. Max takeoff weight around 175 thousand pounds. Yea, that's close to the same.

 

[HowardBorden]

I don't believe so. The DC-9-10 was advertised like that way back when it was introduced, though.

Regardless, marketing and names means nothing. It's an aircraft with 117 seats in a 2-class configuration. No different than a 737.

Swing and a miss.

Boeing Introduces 717-200 Airplane as New Regional Jet

The Boeing Company today introduced and renamed the newest member of its commercial airplane family -- the Boeing 717-200 twinjet.
"The 717-200 is uniquely qualified to meet the evolving requirements of the new regional jetliner market," said Ron Woodard, president, Boeing Commercial Airplane Group. "It's a 100-seat airplane market that demands comfort, low operating costs and high schedule reliability. This is the plane to meet that need."


http://boeing.mediaroom.com/1998-01-08-Boeing-Introduces-717-200-Airplane-as-New-Regional-Jet

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Would the 500 be considered an old RJ as well. In a two class configuration it would have seated around 109, less than the 71? As it is, it seats 117.