AA Recalls

[AA717driver]

I will say that the TWA MEC did the OZ deal in the back room and none of the rank and file knew about it until the ink was dry.

MANY TWA pilots (few of the them were left on the property in 2000) felt OZ got too good of a deal.

My third and final point is that if DOH did not suit the TWA MEC at the time, there was no way in He!! the OZ guys would have gotten it. The OZ pilots were a very young and junior (compared to the TWA guys) group. In 1985, TWA had guys who had been FE's for 15 years with a 5-10 year furlough thrown in there. OZ had CA's with less seniority. The "get out of MY seat, junior" mentality existed in the minds of many at that time.

To the TWA pilots of 1986, most of whom had gotten hired when TWA was the dominant carrier in the world (sound familiar?), OZ was a bush-league operation who hired pilots who couldn't get hired at a major (again, sound familiar?). That was their justification for imposing whatever kind of merger agreement the TWA MEC desired.

The TWA/OZ integration would have been perfect if they had fenced those who were CA's the day before the merger was announced without restriction. As it was, the fences expired after two years and there was a bump and flush of many CA's. That was wrong.

That bump and flush combined with the 50% pay cut imposed by Icahn destroyed many OZ (and TWA, too) pilot's lives. They never forgot and few have gotten over it.

I tried to tell my fellow TWA'ers that the AA merger would suck regardless of the integration. Having witnessed horrible mergers at Air Wisconsin and TWA/OZ, my prediction has obviously come true. No group is going to be 100% happy with ANY integration (even the DAL/Western merger generated some bad feelings ).

I have many former friends who are being slowly destroyed because of this merger. I got lucky when I got laid off but many are stuck at Eagle (a good deal for them at the expense of several hundred Eagle guys) and their only hope is for recall.

None of the AA guys here had a hand in the integration. None even knew about it as it was happening and none could have stopped the train by standing in the middle of the tracks shouting "stop".TC

 

[Draginass]

TWA pilots (ALPA) should have said "NO" to the integration plan. They didn't. They accepted it. Quit whinning.

At the announcement, the champagne corks were popping in the TWA crew rooms (because everyone there knew TWA was at the end of its rope), but in the crew rooms at AA, the mood was, "Oh no, not again." The APA knew what the outcome was going to be . . . . overcapacity, a shutdown of that capacity, and then be stuck with a bunch of excess employees. It was obvious at the time of the announcement that the economy was tanking and spending over a billion dollars for a almost dead airline was not going to work. How big was AA right before the merger? How big is it now? The integration of TWA pilots was one of the few smart things that the APA has done. A bunch of TWA pilots had their jobs extended extended a few years more that they would have otherwise. The whinning is getting tiresome for something that the TWA pilots could have REFUSED. I guess its easier to blame the APA and vilify AA pilots than it is to face the facts of the situation.

 

[pylut]

So what I am getting from the responses here is this:
Acting in a moral fashion with accountability for ones actions only applies if you are in the vast majority and you are assured of the desired outcome. Speaking out against an injustice is only appropriate if it is viewed favorably by the mob you happen to be a part of. Interesting.

I don't subscribe to that. If it's right it's right. It doesn't matter if your the only one standing on the tracks or are joined by other like minded individuals.
Will it change any outcomes? Irrelevant. It probably wouldn't as the vast majority did not have the character necessary to do right. However, speaking up even if it changed nothing would be enough, you would have done right, and you would still have your dignity.

 

[pylut]

Dragin-
Check your facts, are you certain the integration was accepted by TWA?
Interesting that you know the events in both the TWA and aa crew rooms, yet apparently know nothing abouth the "integration"

 

[AA717driver]

The integration was not accepted by the TWA MEC. There is no "four-party-agreement". I'm sure you know the significance of that, Dragin... TC

 

[Vastly Underemp]

Draginass, perhaps you should remove the "dragin" from your moniker.

The TWA pilots did not accept the "s**t sandwich" that was handed to us.
The purchase price was recouped within 1 year by the sale of Worldspan and the acquisition of slots at LGA and DCA. Many on Wall St said the price was a steal.

It's amazing how brave and inaccurate some get when they can hide behind a keyboard

 

[aa73]

So what I am getting from the responses here is this:
Acting in a moral fashion with accountability for ones actions only applies if you are in the vast majority and you are assured of the desired outcome. Speaking out against an injustice is only appropriate if it is viewed favorably by the mob you happen to be a part of. Interesting.

I don't subscribe to that. If it's right it's right. It doesn't matter if your the only one standing on the tracks or are joined by other like minded individuals.
Will it change any outcomes? Irrelevant. It probably wouldn't as the vast majority did not have the character necessary to do right. However, speaking up even if it changed nothing would be enough, you would have done right, and you would still have your dignity.

Your statement is correct in every sense, and I am proud to say that I've maintained my dignity several times over by speaking my mind with other AA pilots over the outcome of this merger. Almost every time, I am accused of being a TWA supporter, and yet I still maintain my opinion that all integrations should go to arbitration when there is disagreement. This relieves both pilot groups of said accountability.

 

[AAflyer]

well said AA73...


AAflyer

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

Why won't you guys just move on? Being a former TWA guy myself, I am not happy about the way things turned out, but I have chosen to move on. There is nothing that can be done about the integration now and the only recourse remaining is the lawsuit against ALPA. Now, back to the original topic of recalls. With the recent announcement of 27 additional aircraft being parked and the likelyhood of PBS becoming a reality, I think it is pretty safe to say that recalls are probably at least two years away. If Eagle starts taking delivery of new aircraft all bets are off and we may never see recalls at AA. I hope I am wrong, but things do not bode well right now for those that are furloughed.

 

[aa73]

Herkdriver,

"Never" is a loooong time. Believe me, AA will have to recall eventually.

The 27 extra jets they are parking starting this month is - precisely - because we don't have the pilot/f/a manning to staff the usual summer expansion. Had they gone ahead with the expansion, they would have recalled by now.

All my sources tell me that they- WILL - plan on a summer expansion next year (2007.) In that case we would have to see recalls for that - even with work rule enhancements/PBS. The figure I consistently hear is to the tune of 600 pilots.

If you wanna spread some bad news, hear this - they just voted in a new DFW chairman who is a total pro company dude. That does not bode well for upcoming Sec 6 negotiations.