AA Recalls Update

[eaglefly]

because they are idiots. They may have an AA senority number but were never employed by AA. Anyhow the flowthroughs were suppose to occupy newhire classes there for when the first new hire class starts there should be 50%(?) flowthroughs and 50% off the street.

oh by the way I don't qualify for floughthrough I just see the lawsuit for what it is. Stupid.

Idiots also are those who spout off without facts.

There is no "lawsuit" for flowthrus to come over to AA before AA furloughees, either flowbacks or not.

What there is, is a GREIVANCE filed by Eagle's MEC hoping to have flowthru's included in the recall process in order of AA seniority, so they would flow over mixed into the recall by their AA seniority number. They (Eagle MEC) are hinging their position on the past APA presidents comments in another hearing.

It is weak and baseless, with virtually no chance of success.

Why do it then ?

The concensus of many, is that the majority of the MEC are mid-level seniority pilots, who want to throw the old geezers off the property as fast as possible, using cost benefit to the company as an excuse. If successful, it would open the floodgates for upgrades and most of these mid-level pilots could advance rapidly to much better pay/schedules.

They're giving their best try, but the senior pilots are becoming very suspicious of the MEC's motives. There will likely be a lot of representational problems within Eagle in the future. The pilot group is polarizing which will likley only get worse.

Letter 3 final language NEVER provided for a pure 50% flowthru occupancy per class.

 

[CSY Mon]

They (Eagle MEC) are hinging their position on the past APA presidents comments in another hearing.

Hmm, I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that comment, and it came from the BOS rep, not the APA president.

He spoke on his own and pulled the statement out of his arse, not from the bylaws, contract or polices regarding flowtroughs and furloughs.

Being selfish, I hope it don't happen, it would delay my recall as well as others that actully applied for the AA job, and had to do the sing and dance to get hired from scratch.
The Eagle guys could have done the same if they wanted a seat and a number with AA.

 

[thor2j]

Song and dance to get hired is an understatement. Why not just bake Mr Cecil Ewell a cake like others did. That's all it took!

 

[XTW]

Hmm, I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that comment, and it came from the BOS rep, not the APA president.

He spoke on his own and pulled the statement out of his arse, not from the bylaws, contract or polices regarding flowtroughs and furloughs.

Well, at least when if it gets to some type of hearing, the person making the decision will hear the FULL context of the statement attributed to JS, and not just a snippet of his words.



X

 

[CSY Mon]

Song and dance to get hired is an understatement. Why not just bake Mr Cecil Ewell a cake like others did. That's all it took!

Some of us got hired after Cecil was gone.
It took more than baking a cake.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Hmm, I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that comment, and it came from the BOS rep, not the APA president.
quote]

The individual in question was previously the APA president, now (and at the time of the statement) a BOS domicile rep.

 

[Draginass]

I agree with Eaglefly. The grievance on flowthru has zip chance of prevailing. The real purpose of it is to poke the APA and AA in the eye and show the membership that the MEC is "doing something."

As far as the effectiveness of the flowthru agreement goes, it was a pathetic failure for AE pilots. The primary reason is that the numbers were not set in contractural stone which left it to management's discretion as to who and how many to hire. This was a clear failure by AE ALPA. In my class at AA there were about 50. I think there were 2 flowthrus.

Why would management bring an AE pilot over the fence and drive 2 training cycles when they don't have to? Further, if an AE captain came to AA, then they had to fill from the bottom by hiring (usually) an inexperienced entry-level guy. Made much more sense to hire a commuter pilot from another company, or a military pilot and keep the experience level as high as practical at AE. In the meantime they could always dangle the flowthru carrot to the gullible ones to get them from jumping ship at AE.

Flowthru was a great concept, but the devil was in the details, and that's where AMR put the wood to ALPA.

 

[AAPilot]

You are all fools! Who cares who worked for who, who is a BOY or GIRL(or child), and who bought who!! This is why I just do my job, hang out with my family and could care less about pilots. Whoever the child is that said they have more time then the other is a fool!! WHO CARES, who are you Chuck Yeagar?? Your just a pawn to management and thats it, get used to it and shut UP

 

[Mach8Forest]

Rudderdog and Vne,

since u can't have a conversation without name calling and insults we might as well start. TWA was on the verge of liquidating. Nobody would of bailed them out. Carty's ego got the best of him and he tried to compete with the Usair-United supposed merger. There was NO benefit to AA. When Crandal left the company was never stronger, that combined with obvious other things sent AA spiraling down.

The flowthrough was NEVER a part of TWA, they lucked out. Many went to Eagle with 18yr pay vs. being furloughed.

Lets face it, TWA in its day was great, along with the people. But in the late 90's when they were hiring, they hired the people who couldn't get a job with any of the other majors that were hiring. Nobody went there and said I want to work here not AA, United, Delta, etc....Then they get AA numbers when they should of liquidated.

Care to compare safety records of the two pilots groups thor!
Mach8

 

[CHIEEEEFS]

Actually she goes by Charlie Yeager and apparently bakes a mean cake.

 

[AA717driver]

thor--No TWA pilot came to AE via the flowback with 18 year pay seniority. The most seniority any of us had who were furloughed was 15 and change. TC

P.S.--Blame your MEC for the large number of flowthroughs. APA offered a deal capping the flowbacks at 125. The Eagle MEC said "bite me".

Yeah, it got shoved up Eagle's a$$ but your MEC bent you over...

 

[Starscream]

Why would management bring an AE pilot over the fence and drive 2 training cycles when they don't have to?

My understanding is that AMR manangement (at the very least the bean counters at Eagle) are foaming at the mouth to send flowthrus to AA. Sure it might create some training cycles, but that'll cost less than keeping 400+ guys on the property who are on 18 year pay ($86-98 per hour). PB's memos to us Eagle folks keep reminding us that we're "top heavy" compared to other regionals. Cheaper to train 'em than to keep 'em I guess. I don't think it'd be Earth shattering stuff either if something were worked out to get as many non-numbered flowthrus over to AA as well (of course, to the bottom of the seniority list) cause most of those guys/gals are on 15-16 year pay -- not cheap either.

 

[amcnd]

thor--No TWA pilot came to AE via the flowback with 18 year pay seniority. The most seniority any of us had who were furloughed was 15 and change. TC

P.S.--Blame your MEC for the large number of flowthroughs. APA offered a deal capping the flowbacks at 125. The Eagle MEC said "bite me".

Yeah, it got shoved up Eagle's a$$ but your MEC bent you over...

Yes they also wanted all new JET CA slots!! instead of displacing pilots!! APA's offer would of saved the company millions!! (125 Displacements and 400 Vacancies) (instead of 500 displacements)

 

[Kugelblitz]

You are all fools! Who cares who worked for who, who is a BOY or GIRL(or child), and who bought who!! This is why I just do my job, hang out with my family and could care less about pilots. Whoever the child is that said they have more time then the other is a fool!! WHO CARES, who are you Chuck Yeagar?? Your just a pawn to management and thats it, get used to it and shut UP

Well said, my potential co-worker. (Hired TWA 1997 now at CAL, but who knows?) It is hard to plan for ones' future with a company when the company itself has no plans for you in its' future. We are all just data in a computer file, and if it will make someone somewhere in management more money to get rid of us all they have to do is hit the delete key.

And they will.

 

[Draginass]

My understanding is that AMR manangement (at the very least the bean counters at Eagle) are foaming at the mouth to send flowthrus to AA. Sure it might create some training cycles, but that'll cost less than keeping 400+ guys on the property who are on 18 year pay ($86-98 per hour). PB's memos to us Eagle folks keep reminding us that we're "top heavy" compared to other regionals. Cheaper to train 'em than to keep 'em I guess. I don't think it'd be Earth shattering stuff either if something were worked out to get as many non-numbered flowthrus over to AA as well (of course, to the bottom of the seniority list) cause most of those guys/gals are on 15-16 year pay -- not cheap either.

During the hiring boom, the company could have easily brought more RJ captains over, but it's pretty obvious to me that it was a deliberate decision not to. And AA management was doing the hiring, not the APA. I heard it said that the company had better success rates with the military and others already with heavy experience, than with the RJ guys, but I'd have to see the true statistics before I believed that.

You make a good point. I've given up on trying to deduce what goes through Centerport's collective brain.

 

[aa73]

I heard it said that the company had better success rates with the military and others already with heavy experience, than with the RJ guys, but I'd have to see the true statistics before I believed that.

Uh oh, here it comes.... another 5 pages on civilian vs. military bashing.

 

[XTW]

I'll get the popcorn. Wife's watching CSI Miami anyway.uke:


X

 

[AA717driver]

You know what? None of this $h!t matters. CC is what it is. AA and APA did what they did. TWA was where it was and the Eagle flowthroughs will flowthrough--maybe (remember, we're dealing with AMR here...).

Hopefully, AA will start growing (not through a merger ) and everyone will prosper. For those on the property, I hope a new contract comes soon. For those off the property, I hope they pull those 80's out of the desert and get some more RR powered 757's and new 777's.

Growth is the only thing that will reverse the effects of the past 5 years. TC

Now, everyone hold hands and sing with me! "Kumbyaah, my Lord, Kumbyaah..." TC

 

[XTW]

Now, everyone hold hands and sing with me! "Kumbyaah, my Lord, Kumbyaah..." TC

TC,

Get away from my tequila bottle! I thought I hid it well enough, you know, so the Marine doesn't get to it!

X

 

[eaglefly]

During the hiring boom, the company could have easily brought more RJ captains over, but it's pretty obvious to me that it was a deliberate decision not to. And AA management was doing the hiring, not the APA. I heard it said that the company had better success rates with the military and others already with heavy experience, than with the RJ guys, but I'd have to see the true statistics before I believed that.

You make a good point. I've given up on trying to deduce what goes through Centerport's collective brain.

For the record, of the 125 or so flowthrus who actually transferred over before hiring stopped, only 1 did not complete new-hire training and that was not for flying performance reasons.

 

[AA717driver]

TC,

...so the Marine doesn't get to it!

X

That would be VERY bad!!! TC

 

[I Hate Freight]

BS
I made 65k a yr at EA and my best yr at TWA was 163K ..your an idiot.

That should be "you're" an idiot.