AA Recalls Update

[CSY Mon]

Supp CC?

What ever happened to the staple job?

 

[aa73]

Supp CC?

What ever happened to the staple job?

CSYMon,

Just gots off de phone wid de Furlough Comittee cfroman, as sheeit as de managa' of flt admin. 'S coo', bro. Here's how it gots'ta wo'k, dig dis: Any TWA pilot returnin' fum furlough gits an automatic reinstatement t'SLT - regardless uh wheda' he/she had some reinstatement t'SLT o' not - so's if dey wants' SLT, it''ll be available as long as dere are openin's dere (and dere probably gots'ta be. What it is, Mama!) Wid de 'sepshun uh de F.I.S who had way mo'e senio'ity dan de oda' "recallees", TWA pilots gots'ta get recalled t'de right seat, albeit da damn "protected" right seat. In oda' wo'ds, TWA pilots are protected fum de minute dey reinstate t'SLT, and would downgrade t'CA acco'din' t'de rules uh Sdownp CC - which gots'ta happen quite quickly, wid de retirements comin' fum de TWA ranks. Probably some matta' of monds. In dis fust class, out uh de 3 TWA pilots, de one TWA F.I.S. gots reinstated t'CA right off de bat - de oda' two gots SLT/FO/S80/D, but unda' de rules uh CC.

Does that clear it up?
imp:

 

[CSY Mon]

Does that clear it up?

Uh, pour me another rum 'n coke and say again....?

 

[macdu]

I love the jive(LMAO) and your info AA73. Thanks for the updates and your neutral position on the TeeWay side of things, it's appreciated.

 

[pkober]

Pk,

from what I hear you'll upgrade at CAL in a couple years. Your not going back are you?

Not planning on it. I was just curious about what APA has planned for the TWA guys. I personally think that giving even the slightest chance they will get rid of Supp CC. Probably in the next contract. I agree that once furloughed TWA pilots start coming into the left seat in large numbers alot of other AA pilots will have a fit.

In the current airline climit you never know where you'lle end up. After this merger I learned that the hard way.

 

[aa73]

Uh, pour me another rum 'n coke and say again....?

Sorry CSY, I was testing out the new and improved "Jive Server". lol

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jbc/home/chef.html

Anytime, guys!
73

 

[frog_flyer]

Sorry CSY, I was testing out the new and improved "Jive Server". lol

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jbc/home/chef.html

Anytime, guys!
73

Oh ******************** I thought you sat there typing this all out. bmmer.


good find though

 

[AA717driver]

Sounds like AMR is going out of its way to cater to ALL the recallees. The natives are getting reinstatement rights to the 4 part bid status from which they were furloughed. That is not contractually guaranteed.

AMR is probably doing that so no one will throw eggs at Hetterman as he's giving his hour-long speech on "Why I deserve the PUP".

From what I understand, AA is a pretty good place to be when things are going well. (We've already determined it's a pretty lousy place to be when they aren't...)

When (if) I go back, I'm looking at it as starting over at a new job that just happens to have some good perks for me down the road. I've seen what it does to people to carry that seething anger with them to work every trip--live quickly, cause you'll die young.

Thanks for the info, AA73 and flyer. TC

 

[AA717driver]

Supp CC?

What ever happened to the staple job?

In 20 years, when most of the top 10% of the seniority list are TWA people ('98-'00 hires) flying to Beijing and Delhi in the left seat of those old, ratty 777's, they'll be telling the newbie AA FO's how bad they got hosed in the integration. Human nature... TC

 

[aa73]

Sounds like AMR is going out of its way to cater to ALL the recallees. The natives are getting reinstatement rights to the 4 part bid status from which they were furloughed. That is not contractually guaranteed.

TC, the way it works for natives is: if you had *more than one* reinstatement when furloughed, they will honor one of them. This has been the case in this first class. But if you only had one reinstatement, that gets dropped when you're recalled, and they send you wherever they need you.

As a TWA guy covered under CC, you would get an automatic reinstatement to SLT if you take recall.

cheers, 73

 

[CSY Mon]

TC, the way it works for natives is: if you had *more than one* reinstatement when furloughed, they will honor one of them. This has been the case in this first class. But if you only had one reinstatement, that gets dropped when you're recalled, and they send you wherever they need you.

Oops, that is new to me..
I thought the latest ruling says we get reinstated to previous position/base.

Say I was B-767/MIA/International, then I got bumped to domestic. (I think, not sure if I bid it as second choice as I could not hold International anymore, but remember flying a bunch of domestic flights at the end. One memorable trip was a T/O from Phoenix in a 757 and got tangled up in wake turbulence from the previous departure. I was flying and doing minor aileron corrections to keep the wings level and the captain kept screaming, "don't hit the rudderes, don't hit the rudders", feet was flat on the floor.. )
Uh, back to topic:
A bit confused here, do I need to be hosed twice to get reinstated into my original choice or last base?

Either I or D is cool as long as it is in MIA and 75/76.
Nothing wrong with NY or MD80s, just not my cup of tea.
(Being a big fat guy, I am not sure I would fit in one of them tiny things)

Hmm, guess I should go back to the APA page and read about reinstatement blurb again.

 

[aa73]

CSY, you need to determine whether you had one or more than one reinstatements when you got furloughed. If you only had one, consider it cancelled upon recall. If you had more than one, you get to keep the one of your choice, and if there is an opening in that bid status when you recall, you be in like Flynn, yo.

Good news is that MIA is going to a lot of recalless, only thang is, it's 737/D. Might change later on.

Latter,
73

 

[glasspilot1]

got tangled up in wake turbulence from the previous departure. I was flying and doing minor aileron corrections to keep the wings level and the captain kept screaming, "don't hit the rudderes, don't hit the rudders", feet was flat on the floor.. )

He didn't have to worry, Rudders/Vert stabs don't fall off of Boeings.

 

[JFReservist]

I know its years off, but with retirements and 40 a month coming back (assuming no new industry killers), when will AA hire off the street?

 

[pipe]

I know its years off, but with retirements and 40 a month coming back (assuming no new industry killers), when will AA hire off the street?

Historically at AA, that will be your indication of an impending furlough.

PIPE

 

[AA717driver]

aa73--it has changed. AA is allowing a reinstatement to the equipment you were furloughed from. You can choose from that 4-pt. status or another reinstatement. Once you choose, everything else gets cancelled. TC

 

[CSY Mon]

AA is allowing a reinstatement to the equipment you were furloughed from.

That's what I thought..So,uh can I get my reinstatement back now?

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

It will be sooner than you think....

I know its years off, but with retirements and 40 a month coming back (assuming no new industry killers), when will AA hire off the street?

The furloughees have 3 years to return after the last of the furloughees gets a recall. With the potential of so many bypassing the recall they could start hiring off the street in just a few years or less. The downside to a new-hire is as the furloughes that have bypassed come back, their relative seniority will remain somewhat junior. The upside to being a newhire is all those years of no hiring and the retirements will pay off farther down the line. IMHO

 

[aa73]

aa73--it has changed. AA is allowing a reinstatement to the equipment you were furloughed from. You can choose from that 4-pt. status or another reinstatement. Once you choose, everything else gets cancelled. TC

Well that's news to me, I'll check on it. If so, good deal. I presume there would have to be an opening in the specific bid status for that to happen, correct?

CSY, that would mean you'd reinstate to the 75/76 in MIA if it's open when you recall.

Thanks for the info.

 

[aa73]

I think we'll be hiring off the street in three years or so. This is assuming 1500 come back initially (conservative estimate) with the rest deferring.

 

[AA717driver]

Well that's news to me, I'll check on it. If so, good deal. I presume there would have to be an opening in the specific bid status for that to happen, correct?

No. They are just eligible to use that as the reinstatement they keep. Contractually, they can only keep a reinstatement generated by a displacement prior to their furlough.

I guess there were a handful of people furloughed off the 767 or 737. TC

 

[EA6BDriver]

aa73--AA is allowing a reinstatement to the equipment you were furloughed from. You can choose from that 4-pt. status or another reinstatement.

Well shoot, as a former F100 guy, when I get back I'm gonna ask for 777s!:beer:

 

[AA717driver]

Well shoot, as a former F100 guy, when I get back I'm gonna ask for 777s!:beer:

No way! Back to the land of steam gauges for you! Better practice saying: "No sir, we're too heavy for 350. We'll have to stay at 310. TC

 

[EA6BDriver]

No way! Back to the land of steam gauges for you! Better practice saying: "No sir, we're too heavy for 350. We'll have to stay at 310. TC

Yep, low and slow we were, but steam gauges? As an A-6/EA-6B I know steam gauges. Believe me, the F100 was waaaay Gucci to this Caveman. My usual quote to the Captains trying to help me along was, "What's it doing now!!??" :erm:

 

[instructordude]

I think we'll be hiring off the street in three years or so. This is assuming 1500 come back initially (conservative estimate) with the rest deferring.

That should be good timing for me but I am thinking FedEX/Continental over American.

 

[thor2j]

Dont forget there are about 400 guys at Eagle that have seniority numbers at AA, so it may take a little longer.

 

[G4G5]

Deleted

 

[CitationLover]

Dont forget there are about 400 guys at Eagle that have seniority numbers at AA, so it may take a little longer.

expect over half to stay at eagle.

 

[thor2j]

Whoops....Let me fix this

 

[G4G5]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Sup W
III. Employment Opportunities at AA for AMR Eagle, Inc. Pilots
D. If a CJ Captain is placed on the AA Pilots Seniority List per III.B. above, such
CJ Captain will receive priority based on his AA seniority in filling a [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]new hire
position in the next new hire class, following release from a training freeze or
other AMR Eagle, Inc. imposed operational constraint.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Depending upon who you talk to Sup W expires either May of 2007 or May of 2008.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]From the contract[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]'VII. Duration
A. This Supplemental Agreement shall be effective on signing and shall continue in full force and effect through the later of:
1. The amendable date of the next ensuing Basic Agreement between AA and APA.
2. Ten (10) years from the date of signing of this Supplemental Agreement, at which time this Supplemental Agreement shall become null, void and of no further force and effect.'[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]If you read number 1, then the next amendable date become May of 2007 because AA decided to open up contract negotiations early on May of 2006. If they had waited until the normal date of May 2007 then Sup W would have expired on May of 2008, which is when most folks seem to think it still think it is set to expire.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]IMHO, it's a moot point because their is no way that AA get through the 2,800 furloughed pilots before either date. Which equates to no new hires before SUp W expires, which equate to no more flow throughs. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]If you listen to the latest rumors AA would like to ramp up recalls to 40 within 6 months. So for arguments sake lets say that 66% decide to accept recalls. 2800 x 66% = 1848. I know the numbers for the first group are significantly lower but these folks are the ones that took the "furlough instead" because they all had something better to do, so it can be expected that they will not come back until they have too. As numbers get closer to the bottom of the list percentages traditionally get higher.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Back to the math. 10 a month for the next 3 months, then 20 a month for months 4-6, from then on out 40 a month. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]That's 330 for 2007 and then 480 a year until furloughs are exhausted. If 66% accept the recalls then it will take until 4 years or Jan of 2011. If 50% of the then 1400 pilots or the you are looking at 3 years or Jan of 2010 before AA needs to start hiring off the street. Either way Sup W has long since expired. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Again IMHO, the Eagle pilots would just be wasting their time if they were waiting around until 2010 or 2011 just to try and get a number at AA, those guys are Sr enough with enough PIC time to be more then competitive today at SWA, UPS, FedEx or CAL. AA is not worth the wait.[/FONT]