AA now wants costs cuts

[Occam's Razor]

History has shown that you can not shrink an airline into profitability. Further cutting wages and concessions will never save an airline. Good luck to all aviators at AA.

Other than CAL in 1991 and NWA in 1993, you mean?

Both shrank and later went on to record profits.

Apparently, there is some sort of "cycle" to the economy and our industry.

 

[Gorilla]

Us: Raise The ^%*($#&#@ Fares Already!!!!!

MGT: But... But.. we can't!! We'll LOSE MARKET SHARE! Waaaahhhh.

Me: Man I'm sick of this merry-go-round.

 

[Mugs]

And AA was the most recent spoiler in a somewhat agressive ticket price increase attempt by UAL. A day later, AA talks about further labor cost cuts.

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

I think this cycle of cost cutting is a revolving door. Until someone stands up to mgmt to stop it, it will keep going round and round between airlines. GL, you guys have a chance to stop this thing and I hope you do. Good luck.

I could not agree more. The Delta pilots, while much maligned on these boards, have been the ones to hold up the industry. Back in 2000, it was they who finally created a realistic wage for the 767-400 and the 777. United then springboarded off of that, and Delta springboarded back with their contract.

Meanwhile, SWA pilots drug the industry down for years, the RJDC freaks decided that they had not the leverage to get a piece of the pie. So they sued for it. JBlu pilots came into being. Even the top pay in the industry was lower than pay back in the 70s adjusted for inflation.

Then the AA guys caved under the threat of ch11, the USAir guys caved and the next day went to ch11, came out and went ch11 again. Next was United, caved. The Delta and NWA really had no choice but to cave. I have heard no strike talk from the NWA pilots. I have heard a lot of strike talk from the Delta MEC.

Folks, my point is not to point fingers at any one group. My point is that one group cannot do it alone. Round em up and shut the airspace down. Bite the bullet, create one list, and weild some responsible power.

Ticket prices are the lowest ever, and so are the wages of the people responsbile for billions of lives.

 

[aa73]

Then the AA guys caved under the threat of ch11, the USAir guys caved and the next day went to ch11, came out and went ch11 again. Next was United, caved.

Not quite in that order. USAir caved first, followed by UAL and then AA.

 

[Birdstrike]

But, Rick, all the shoes are bad right now at the legacies. Truly, it's at the point where pilots are thinking about "number one" (that is, their own families), because they have to. It's a farkin' lifeboat mentality, and no way around it.

However. That said, there are still many, many pilots at NW and DL right now who say they are willing to hold the line, no matter what. Time will tell.

But what do you do about the guys who are always willing to do it for less? If there's enough of them out there, how do you retain leverage? Remember PATCO in 1981?

 

[81Horse]

Remember PATCO in 1981?

August 3, 1981.

Oh -- I remember. In fact, I can't forget.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I've been furlooughed from American for almost five years now. In that time I received one check from the AX contract lawsuit for about $800. 800 bucks in five years. No medical insurance, travel passes, no nothing. Nada. Zilch.

Last night I had a friend come over and visit me. His Dad retired from American about 2 years ago. His Dad was going on and on about how lucky he was because he was able to take his both A and B fund in a lump sum.

He lives in Florida and is a real estate broker in his spare time. His house is worth over 5 million dollars. It has an elevator. The whole time he was talking to me about his life, he never once asked how things were for me after being furloughed. It never even crossed his mind.

The problem with the unions are that the old guys just don't give a crap at all about the young guys. They have all the power and do all that they can to protect themselves. If that means thousands of dudes get furloughed, who cares? As long as they keep their nest-egg, they are happy.

The senior airline pilots are as responsible as managment for holding us down. There are not necessarily mean spirited, they just don't give a crap about us.

I wonder if I will be like them someday? I hope not, but in 25 years I could be saying, "I was furloughed for X years, screw them." We'll see.

Big Slick,

Great post. Always, Always think about what the senior dudes want to do to the pilot group. They try to sell the membership on "improvements" for everyone but the reality is they want to help the senior dudes the most. Don't trust them.

The SWA senior guys seem to be a little better than most, but I still have my eye on them. I have, mostly, been pleasantly surprised by their leadership.

IMHO, the long term success of a pilot has much to do with the tactics of their pilot group.

I've heard at AMR the pilot group wants to hold onto the pension "at all costs". Looks like it will be borne on the backs of the F/O's.

Good luck...

 

[AceCrackshot]

I could not agree more. The Delta pilots, while much maligned on these boards, have been the ones to hold up the industry.

I've got to throw the flag on this one...

The DALPA have made a number of mistakes to get our profession to the point we see now...

Bronze medalist:
The whole PAN AM integration/nonintegration thing...which of course set the stage for a number of other windfalls at other pilots expense.

Silver medalist:
The allowance for "contract aviators" on the widebody. Oh yeah, that was a one time deal. And the same DL guys will turn around and tell JB we can't accept Transcon turns due to "precedent."

Gold medalist:
Allowing RJ commuter lift. When they (and ALPA national, to be fair) could have killed it in its cradle.

Oh yeah, DALPA is holding the line. Wrong, DALPA is starting to make the bearest of amends for the abortion that this profession has become. And that they helped create.

 

[AA717driver]

Bravo, Ace! TC

 

[ExpWayVis31]

Always, Always think about what the senior dudes want to do to the pilot group. They try to sell the membership on "improvements" for everyone but the reality is they want to help the senior dudes the most. Don't trust them.

I'm not a senior dude but some day god willing I might be one, so might you?

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I'm not a senior dude but some day god willing I might be one, so might you?

Yeah and I hope I don't turn into the A$$ that some turn into after they get there. I am thankful that many a Captain at SWA remember what its like to be a junior FO.

 

[OffHot]

Hey good news, even if the Air Traffic Controllers turn down their present contract, congress can force them to accept a contract that pays the avg. controller 187000 a year.

 

[ExpWayVis31]

remember what its like to be a junior FO.

It's all relative, at SWA what's the time to upgrade? 5-6 years? That means that you will be complaining about being a junior captain while many of us are still F/O's.

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

I love what I am seeing here. I'll tell ya guys, uncle Frank is hopping on the AA bandwagon.

I see the employees are going to let management keep their bonuses that come due April 17th. I can't tell you how proud I am of you all! This is the key to airline success. Huge managerial bonuses. If you want a well oiled machine, you need to attract the best. The only way to do that is with a lot of moolah baby.

And now I see this Horton guy is back. I see he just came back from a slash and burn tour of duty at AT&T in which THOUSANDS lost their jobs. THIS IS MY KIND OF GUY!

This Horton guy needs to get the AA pilots salaries in line with the likes of UAL and JBLU. The fact that the AA pilots think they can keep these outrageously expensive pension programs is ridiculous! Dump them on to the tax payer I say! A few more furloughs wouldn't hurt either.

I'll tell ya.......AA is GOING PLACES!