AA now wants costs cuts

[ExpWayVis31]

Always, Always think about what the senior dudes want to do to the pilot group. They try to sell the membership on "improvements" for everyone but the reality is they want to help the senior dudes the most. Don't trust them.

I'm not a senior dude but some day god willing I might be one, so might you?

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I'm not a senior dude but some day god willing I might be one, so might you?

Yeah and I hope I don't turn into the A$$ that some turn into after they get there. I am thankful that many a Captain at SWA remember what its like to be a junior FO.

 

[OffHot]

Hey good news, even if the Air Traffic Controllers turn down their present contract, congress can force them to accept a contract that pays the avg. controller 187000 a year.

 

[ExpWayVis31]

remember what its like to be a junior FO.

It's all relative, at SWA what's the time to upgrade? 5-6 years? That means that you will be complaining about being a junior captain while many of us are still F/O's.

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

I love what I am seeing here. I'll tell ya guys, uncle Frank is hopping on the AA bandwagon.

I see the employees are going to let management keep their bonuses that come due April 17th. I can't tell you how proud I am of you all! This is the key to airline success. Huge managerial bonuses. If you want a well oiled machine, you need to attract the best. The only way to do that is with a lot of moolah baby.

And now I see this Horton guy is back. I see he just came back from a slash and burn tour of duty at AT&T in which THOUSANDS lost their jobs. THIS IS MY KIND OF GUY!

This Horton guy needs to get the AA pilots salaries in line with the likes of UAL and JBLU. The fact that the AA pilots think they can keep these outrageously expensive pension programs is ridiculous! Dump them on to the tax payer I say! A few more furloughs wouldn't hurt either.

I'll tell ya.......AA is GOING PLACES!

 

[AAslag]

Thank's for the comedic relief Frank......I need it.

Say, ya wanna do coffee?

 

[800Dog]

I've got to throw the flag on this one...

The DALPA have made a number of mistakes to get our profession to the point we see now...

Bronze medalist:
The whole PAN AM integration/nonintegration thing...which of course set the stage for a number of other windfalls at other pilots expense.

Silver medalist:
The allowance for "contract aviators" on the widebody. Oh yeah, that was a one time deal. And the same DL guys will turn around and tell JB we can't accept Transcon turns due to "precedent."

Gold medalist:
Allowing RJ commuter lift. When they (and ALPA national, to be fair) could have killed it in its cradle.

Oh yeah, DALPA is holding the line. Wrong, DALPA is starting to make the bearest of amends for the abortion that this profession has become. And that they helped create.

Those Delta guys are long gone!

 

[Big Slick]

I'm an AA furloughee, so I can say this.

IMHO, we need to get rid of the A and B funds. We will not be able to compete if we don't. I say, the sooner the better.

Ironically, we might have been better off if we had declared bankruptcy back in the day. Without bankruptcy, it will be nearly impossible to lower employee costs and, thus, save the company. How in the world can we compete with Southwest, Jetblue, United, etc. if we have huge retirement costs and they don't?

The good ol' days are gone and the sooner we accept reality the better.

Here is what we really need - Growth Plan Two. Maybe we can recall Crandall. Employees bite the bullet with paycuts in exchange for growth. I would plan the growth phase to coincide with SWAs fuel hedges running out.

I would hire new employees on b-scale wages. Even at b-scale wages, American could still hire lots of top-notch folks. Don't believe me? Look how many folks are trying to get hired by the discount airlines right now. If the pay was the same, I would rather work for American than Virgin American.

It was a bitter pill at the time, but the original Growth Plan made American the largest airline in the world. It also made a lot of Captains. No one would complain about paycuts if they knew they could move up in seniority.

We have been playing defense long enough. We need a strategic plan to get out of this mess. We also need to consolidate with someone, maybe British Airways. In short, we need some innovative thinking. Just asking for paycuts over and over is not an effective strategy.

 

[Uppercrust]

I'm an AA furloughee, so I can say this.

IMHO, we need to get rid of the A and B funds. We will not be able to compete if we don't. I say, the sooner the better.

Ironically, we might have been better off if we had declared bankruptcy back in the day. Without bankruptcy, it will be nearly impossible to lower employee costs and, thus, save the company. How in the world can we compete with Southwest, Jetblue, United, etc. if we have huge retirement costs and they don't?

The good ol' days are gone and the sooner we accept reality the better.

Here is what we really need - Growth Plan Two. Maybe we can recall Crandall. Employees bite the bullet with paycuts in exchange for growth. I would plan the growth phase to coincide with SWAs fuel hedges running out.

I would hire new employees on b-scale wages. Even at b-scale wages, American could still hire lots of top-notch folks. Don't believe me? Look how many folks are trying to get hired by the discount airlines right now. If the pay was the same, I would rather work for American than Virgin American.

It was a bitter pill at the time, but the original Growth Plan made American the largest airline in the world. It also made a lot of Captains. No one would complain about paycuts if they knew they could move up in seniority.

We have been playing defense long enough. We need a strategic plan to get out of this mess. We also need to consolidate with someone, maybe British Airways. In short, we need some innovative thinking. Just asking for paycuts over and over is not an effective strategy.

PAYCUTS BABY!!!! PAYCUTS here they come!

 

[CaptainMark]

The good ol' days are gone and the sooner we accept reality the better.

there is the attitude that we all want to here...give up..it's over! if pilots of years past had that same attitude i would be making LCC wages...thank God they didn't!!!!! how about getting some managers that have a clue and some pilots with balls!

 

[Big Slick]

Captain Mark,

As an airline captain, I can see you point of view. You want to keep as much as you can. Makes sense.

As someone who has already been furloughed for almost five years, I see things differently. I think that pay/retirement cuts are inevitible. Its basic math. The sooner folks deal with the reality of the new competitive environment, the sooner I go back to work.

I guess it is all a matter of perspective. You want as much pay/retirement as possible. I want a job.

 

[mnboyev]

Well said...Senior fellas will eat their young.period... Maybe its always been that way.. Somebody said it on another thread.. but maybe its time for pilots from all carriers to have a show of solidarity.. I say no Logo lights, or star walking side by side... Didnt Alpa start that back in the 30's..? It might time again.. for ALL of the pilot unions to start standing together to retake ground lost.

The pricing pressure and stiff competition on one side, and labor pressure on the other.... Right now, it is easier for them to make quick gains on labor side than increase fares and loose market... If loads fall below a certain level..???. squeeeze...

What do ya say fellow professional pilots ?

 

[mnboyev]

Sorry for my bad typing and poor spelling.. Sincere apologies for my fat fingers. Logo Logo....

 

[81Horse]

I would hire new employees on b-scale wages.

Wait a minute -- haven't you been complaining about senior pilots throwing junior pilots under the bus? AA's original B-scale is where this whole mess started -- the Original Sin, as it were.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I'm an AA furloughee, so I can say this.

IMHO, we need to get rid of the A and B funds. We will not be able to compete if we don't. I say, the sooner the better.

I would hire new employees on b-scale wages. Even at b-scale wages, American could still hire lots of top-notch folks. Don't believe me? Look how many folks are trying to get hired by the discount airlines right now. If the pay was the same, I would rather work for American than Virgin American.

Do you still have access to the American message boards? Try floating this stuff over there and see what you get. They'll fry you.

You may be right but I'd bet that most of the American folks would tell you to go away with your plan for "success". No way this will happen unless American nears BK again.

 

[Big Slick]

Allow me to clarify.

I think the A and B funds will eventualy be gone for good. If other companies don't have them, we can't afford them. Neither can CAL. Basic math. The writing is on the wall, but some folks don't want to read it.

Here is my thought with the "evil" b-scale:
Lets say you get hired at American for the same pay/benefits as Jetblue. Right now that sounds pretty good. A lot of folks would be happy to have that job. Sure beats American Eagle. If things get better in 10 years, the union negotiates to get rid of the b-scale just like last time. If things never improve, Jetblue pay/benefits are the new standard.

Why is that such an evil idea?

 

[D'Angelo]

I don't know why I'm even acknowledging this idiot with a response....Here goes dumba$$.
Ever hear the term, you're worth what you negotiate?? Probably not. Ao you think its alright for management to just dip into your pocketbook and reward themselves with golden parachutes and bonuses while the company continues to bleed money! Which tells me either you're that stupid and beyond comprehension, or just a management puke in disguise. Now go and pick up some open time and have the captain baby sit your useless a$$!
737

Again I asked a simple question. Prove to me using actual numbers that a home depot employee makes more than any legacy/lcc airline. Using those same numbers in fact prove that you can make more over time in a career at Home Depot than you can with a career at a regional using the worst case scenario. Paycuts have been discussed already. So if you can make more at home depot why aren't more people jumping ship? I guess if you wanna sit in a warehouse fetching things off the shelf for a career thats ok. Im asking for proof that you will make more money by going there. No one ever gives it because its probably not true. Pilots just like using dramatic worst case scenario examples to make everyone think they are the only ones with a plight. Also while your at it prove how you can make more at mcdonalds, etc. etc.

 

[mannyaplus11]

Okay, is AA serious about pay cuts?

Just a few humble suggestions:
1. Get rid of the AA medical corps. There is no reason to have a staff of doctors and nurses hanging around giving astronaut physicals to everyone that walks in the door. Why is it EVERY other airline asked me for a copy of my medical and pee in the cup, but, AA has this battery of tests administered by Nurse Attila-the-Hun. I don't think I'll ever forget nurse Doom.

2. Get rid of at least half of the "vice-presidents" in charge of cubicle spaces in their own little world. We don't need a manager for every 5 employees.

3. No more bonuses to management until a profit is realized.

4. Grandfather the present A and B fund for present employees, furloughees included. Fair is fair. New hires will get an enhanced 401K. Present emplyees have the option to convert to this enhanced 401K.

5. Sell Eagle-that should get some arguments going, .

Like I said, just a few humble suggestions. I'm also going on 5 years as a furloughed dude. I've moved on, and, unless something catastrophic happens at my present carrier, I won't be coming back.

 

[PHX767]

The pay cut demand will translate into that dreaded phrase, "Increased Pilot Productivity."

The union will concede flying up to FAR limits, take a pay cut, have the reserve guys work another couple of days a month, and let the company have PBS. There will be a stern sounding no-furlough clause, that they will give up just like the last couple of times.

Then the old dog line holders will sell vacation, call in sick, drop trips, and enjoy life as usual while the junior guys work their tails off for the promise of the golden fleece - the retirement!

 

[IXLR8]

What???????????

Okay, is AA serious about pay cuts?

3. No more bonuses to management until a profit is realized.

But, how can these top notch management teams keep all of these fantastic people if they dont give them all of the million dollar bonuses????? I mean, come on!!! They will leave and go on to destroy another airline then!!! We just cannot afford that.....:nuts: