Come on; you hold peoples lives in your hand. Maybe if you are a depressed and suicidal. What the hell is so hard about flying an instrument approach that you feel the need to screw it up and fly into the side of a mountain. You guys are taking yourselves far to seriously. Fly so that you live and so will everyone else. And if your mind is on all those poor passengers in the back then it may as well be up youre @@$ because it is not where it should be like in the cockpit.
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Interesting timing - I just showed up to do reserve duty at the squadron while all of the bankruptcy news about USAir and United was breaking as well as the increased furloughs at American and Delta. Everyone wanted to know why the pilots were trying to bankrupt the companies - don't they know how easy they have it? Most of the active duty military pilots at the squadron blamed the airline pilots for asking for way too much money in a milk run job and way too much time off. Don't shoot me, I'm just tellin' what I hear....
herb
Well-known member
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- May 12, 2002
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- 47
Clownpilot,
There is not any scope applied to the reverse code-shares by American Connection carriers TSA and CHQ. This is why AMR is expanding the AX code flying. On Aug. 15, 50 new destinations were added to the AX code. Just look in this weeks N*SYSHOT in RES. I'm sure there is a lot more to come.
In response to:
>>They have the ability to fly ANY SIZE aircraft to ANY DESTINATION in ANY FREQUENCY with an UNLIMITED FLEET SIZE.>>
You said:
>>ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE. Unlimited codeshares are not allowed by any stretch of the imagination. By contract.>>
Would you please quote a part of your contract that limits anyone other than Eagle operating under the AA code?
In response to:
>>Eagle will remain at its current size (but may go all jet and adjust route structure), but there's nothing APA can do about Connection with "reverse code-sharing".>>
You said:
>>ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE. By contract.>>
Again, please reference the wording in the contract specifically. I only know of wording which limits "Commuter Jets at Commuter Air Carriers" supplying feed to AA. WHICH AMR DOES NOT INTERPRET TO INCLUDE TRANS STATES/CHAUTAUQUA flying under the reverse code share (AX).
In response to:
>>AMR management has already hinted of "things to come" in the near future involving this issue. The thing to come WILL be the 70 (and 90-seat) RJ NOT flown by mainline.>>
You said:
>>ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE. Eagle is prohibited from flying ANY jet with greater than 70 seats to a maximum of 67 total between 45 and 70 seats. Also, because of the weight restriction in the contract few 70 seat aircraft actually qualify. By contract. >>
You are correct in saying "Eagle" is restricted. However, per AMR's interpretation, the AX reverse code-share (TSA/CHQ) IS NOT RESTRICTED. Can you show me where it says reverse code-share is limited by your scope??? I agree that the term "Commuter Jets" used in your scope clause should refer to all airlines supplying feed, but that is not the interpretation of your contract by AMR. If you don't think Trans States will be flying 70 and 90 seat jets...why do you suppose they are negotiating a pay scale for that size aircraft??? Look at http://www.tsalounge.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1107
There is not any scope applied to the reverse code-shares by American Connection carriers TSA and CHQ. This is why AMR is expanding the AX code flying. On Aug. 15, 50 new destinations were added to the AX code. Just look in this weeks N*SYSHOT in RES. I'm sure there is a lot more to come.
In response to:
>>They have the ability to fly ANY SIZE aircraft to ANY DESTINATION in ANY FREQUENCY with an UNLIMITED FLEET SIZE.>>
You said:
>>ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE. Unlimited codeshares are not allowed by any stretch of the imagination. By contract.>>
Would you please quote a part of your contract that limits anyone other than Eagle operating under the AA code?
In response to:
>>Eagle will remain at its current size (but may go all jet and adjust route structure), but there's nothing APA can do about Connection with "reverse code-sharing".>>
You said:
>>ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE. By contract.>>
Again, please reference the wording in the contract specifically. I only know of wording which limits "Commuter Jets at Commuter Air Carriers" supplying feed to AA. WHICH AMR DOES NOT INTERPRET TO INCLUDE TRANS STATES/CHAUTAUQUA flying under the reverse code share (AX).
In response to:
>>AMR management has already hinted of "things to come" in the near future involving this issue. The thing to come WILL be the 70 (and 90-seat) RJ NOT flown by mainline.>>
You said:
>>ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE. Eagle is prohibited from flying ANY jet with greater than 70 seats to a maximum of 67 total between 45 and 70 seats. Also, because of the weight restriction in the contract few 70 seat aircraft actually qualify. By contract. >>
You are correct in saying "Eagle" is restricted. However, per AMR's interpretation, the AX reverse code-share (TSA/CHQ) IS NOT RESTRICTED. Can you show me where it says reverse code-share is limited by your scope??? I agree that the term "Commuter Jets" used in your scope clause should refer to all airlines supplying feed, but that is not the interpretation of your contract by AMR. If you don't think Trans States will be flying 70 and 90 seat jets...why do you suppose they are negotiating a pay scale for that size aircraft??? Look at http://www.tsalounge.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1107
Dogg...
I never mentioned anything about being depressed or suicidal, or intentionally flying into the side of a mountain.......But mistakes DO happen (as has been the case in ALOT of aviation accidents that cost lives), and passengers do die.....HENCE, I guess their lives are in the pilots hands since it was their mistake that killed them......I fail to see how the job pilots do cannot have a direct affect on the outcome of the passengers.
A doctor does his job correctly, the patient lives. Pilots do their job correctly, the passengers live. Where's the difference (other than the obvious schooling and technical aspects)?? Both occupations can cause death to their customers if not done correctly.
And no, I am not thinking of the passengers on my airplane directly.....Like you said, if I do my job and the airplane arrives safe, so will they.
I never mentioned anything about being depressed or suicidal, or intentionally flying into the side of a mountain.......But mistakes DO happen (as has been the case in ALOT of aviation accidents that cost lives), and passengers do die.....HENCE, I guess their lives are in the pilots hands since it was their mistake that killed them......I fail to see how the job pilots do cannot have a direct affect on the outcome of the passengers.
A doctor does his job correctly, the patient lives. Pilots do their job correctly, the passengers live. Where's the difference (other than the obvious schooling and technical aspects)?? Both occupations can cause death to their customers if not done correctly.
And no, I am not thinking of the passengers on my airplane directly.....Like you said, if I do my job and the airplane arrives safe, so will they.
Last edited:
John; I will back off, relax and explain myself. The comment about peoples lives in our hands is metaphorical. Of course we do have their lives in our hands literally. But we also have our lives in our hands and as long as we get back so will they. That is my point. I go every day( well once in a while when I get called on reserve) and take an airplane full of people or boxes or people and boxes or cows or horses or whatever from here to there and back again. I try to do it on the schedule that my company has provided but often that is unrealistic so i don't worry about that. I worry about bringing myself and the airplane back to where it started in one piece. That is really all that we are paid to do. If you or anyone else is allowing other factors like people or mgmt or schedules or profitability to enter your thought process then you are endangering yourself and the people sitting behind you.
Hey Clownpilot:
No wonder people have such a bad impression about pilots for our airline (read: SkyNazi). Fools such as yourself (who, of course, have the arrogance to put "AA domestic F/O" in their profile) have proven time-and-time again that AA is a good company to work for, but not a fun company to work for.
Personally, I'd rather be working for a company with a good safety record (face it, AA guys will fly a checklist right into the ground), that has cool people (i.e. AWA, SWA), yet like almost everyone else, the pay issue is the main reason for coming here.
You are obviously someone who never had the priveledge of "doing time" at the regionals. To refer to someone as an "Eagle troll" is simply arrogant, and shows how uneducated you are. How long have you been working for AA? Are you one of those F/O's that still wears the SCOPE badge? I assume we're around the same seniority, which is nice, because that means I will never have to be your F/O. Regards.
No wonder people have such a bad impression about pilots for our airline (read: SkyNazi). Fools such as yourself (who, of course, have the arrogance to put "AA domestic F/O" in their profile) have proven time-and-time again that AA is a good company to work for, but not a fun company to work for.
Personally, I'd rather be working for a company with a good safety record (face it, AA guys will fly a checklist right into the ground), that has cool people (i.e. AWA, SWA), yet like almost everyone else, the pay issue is the main reason for coming here.
You are obviously someone who never had the priveledge of "doing time" at the regionals. To refer to someone as an "Eagle troll" is simply arrogant, and shows how uneducated you are. How long have you been working for AA? Are you one of those F/O's that still wears the SCOPE badge? I assume we're around the same seniority, which is nice, because that means I will never have to be your F/O. Regards.
HA25
Tokyo Tokyo!
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2001
- Posts
- 3,643
FalconCpt, don't take this the wrong way, but you sound like a lot of the guys I run into at the FBO's that fly corporate. They HATE the "airline guys" and keep saying things like "$300,000/year to fly a 777??"
The fact is, if you don't think your worth that kind of money at the end of a 30 year career, and you are satisfied with your earnings, great. I am not . I am passionate about aviation, and even if my education allowed me to earn more outside aviation, I will not jump this ship.
That said, I am also not one of those "thank God I'm a pilot" types who will work for less than people with a fraction of my responsibility do in the offices all accross America.
They always say "Pilots are their own worse enemy's". From the guy who will pay to build time in the right seat, to the Instuctor who will fly for free....it's starts there and it ends up with multiple typerated ATP's with 15 years in their career who think that that $150,000 is more money than anyone deserves to make with 120 people in the back of a 120,000lb flying gas tank.
Again, I can't belive I'm even having this arguement on this of all message boards
tredding@swa
SWA F/O
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2002
- Posts
- 294
enough already...
C'mon E V E R Y O N E.... give it a break...
Here are a couple of web links that are CERTAIN to help quite a few of you;
http://www.edgecity.com/shinanagans/pms.html
http://www.quitwhining.com/
http://www.tampax.com/en_us/pages/home.shtml?pageid=hm0001
http://www.pfdf.org/leaderbooks/kelleher/nuts.html
If ANYone is offended by these suggestions, lighten up, life is short - find some humor in your otherwise boring lives!?!?!?
Have a great day all!!! Most Sincerely - Tredding
C'mon E V E R Y O N E.... give it a break...
Here are a couple of web links that are CERTAIN to help quite a few of you;
http://www.edgecity.com/shinanagans/pms.html
http://www.quitwhining.com/
http://www.tampax.com/en_us/pages/home.shtml?pageid=hm0001
http://www.pfdf.org/leaderbooks/kelleher/nuts.html
If ANYone is offended by these suggestions, lighten up, life is short - find some humor in your otherwise boring lives!?!?!?
Have a great day all!!! Most Sincerely - Tredding
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