AA - not good news

[AAflyer]

Publisher,

You are right, they do get paid. To the toon of around 4 million dollars (forbes; carty is the 204th highest paid CEO and currently the #1 paid airline CEO) Glad to know that while more of my over paid brothers are hittting the street he and upper managment get a raise.

They have been fair. Would that explain why Carty appointed G. Arpey to oversee daily operations while he went to DC to lobby congress on abolishing the Railway labor Act, and making Scope clauses illegal.

Leadership qualities. Would that explain why between AA,AE,TWLLC there are close to 367 oustanding grievances for contract violations. Would those be the same qualities that have tried to pit labor groups against each other. Would these leadership qualities explain why AMR has one of the worst labor relations in the industry.

Last but not least, Oh wise one. Can you gurantee me AMR will come out on top. That must be some crystal-ball you have. What color shirt do I have on?

I have read many of your posts, this was not one of your better ones, maybe I would just stick to flying airplanes.

Regards,
AAflyer
(aka: overpaid mainline guy who has no clue)

 

[eaglefly]

A lot of AA's domestic future will involve more 70-seat RJ's (and probably 90-seaters too). The APA has been successful in limiting Eagle, but has failed to address the new threat. American Connection. They have the ability to fly ANY SIZE aircraft to ANY DESTINATION in ANY FREQUENCY with an UNLIMITED FLEET SIZE.

Eagle will remain at its current size (but may go all jet and adjust route structure), but there's nothing APA can do about Connection with "reverse code-sharing".

AMR management has already hinted of "things to come" in the near future involving this issue. The thing to come WILL be the 70 (and 90-seat) RJ NOT flown by mainline. The 550 announced is just the start over the next several years. AMR wants the EMB-170. It hits the market early next year and will be flying everything the F-100's used too.

You can deny it, but if you do you're living in denial.

 

[JetPilot500]

That is correct, CEO's make a lot of money, it is a fact of life. They have a lot of responsibility, more than any pilot, so they make more. You want the best of the best at the helm of your company, therefore you have to pay for it. They are responsible for not just your job, but for all of the investors too. It is the way the world works. Their job is to make money for investors. If it means shrinking the company so they can offer some earnings per share, than that is what they have to do. It sure beats the alternative, BANKRUPTCY!

I too got furloughed after Sept 11, and I was very sad to see my job go away. But, I picked myself up and moved forward. The industry is doing what it has to do to survive right now.

Airlines will NOT make money paying the salaries that the unions demand. The industry has changed. Unions must change. Management must change. The way they do business has to change.

Everything is gonna have to adjust here. Things cannot, and will not be as they were. They can't, and it just might take the loss of a few big airlines like US Airways and United to prove that point.

Good Luck to all,
Jetpilot500

By the way: I highly recommend the book, "Who Moved My Cheese." Its a short book that talks about dealing with Change.

 

[publisher]

reponsibility

I can understand the perspective offered by AAFlyer.

The fact is though that the CEO of an airline is reponsible to a good many more people than flight crews.

The first and foremost responsibility is to see that the corporation survives and that the assets are protected. Second is to generate a return for the shareholders.

From a business perspective, it is ludicrous that the labor rules of todays modern airlines are covered by the Railway Labor Act. Even the name is absurd. Secondly, scope from a business standpoint does not work as evidenced by many posts on this board. It is an artifical barrier that fails the test when inserted into a supply and demand market place/

Frankly, I think AA has gone overboard to comply with the rules and in their approach to doing so has showed how stupid this thing is.

I stick by what I said. AA is well run and go compare them with United. During these times, they had to give labor raises so that they could ask for concessions. That is certainly a novel approach.

 

[LR45JI]

This is a nasty, rotten business.

--Robert Crandall
American Airlines, 1994

 

[HA25]

I too agree that AA is the lesser of evils as far as compitent management, however that doesn't excuse the CEO pay at these airlines. I agree that we need the best at the helm, but you can get a lot of talent for less than the money they make and if you limit all CEO pay accross the board at all companies (i.e. limit stock options), then you get rid of the ENRON/GC/WORLDCOM temptations to make quarterly earnings look good to raise the price of your stock, and you begin to come closer to the Europeans and Japanese in how they pay their CEOs..

No, I am not a communist, I am a 12 year registered conservative Republican.

 

[AAflyer]

Pub,

The railway labor act of 1926 was the the result of a long evolution. It addressed

1. many attempts to deal with the rights of labor to unionize

2. the establishment of enforceable dispute settlement machinery.

3. the prevention of the interruption of service.

A few acts that helped establish the RLA. were the

Arbitration Act of 1888, to introduce voluntary arbitration.
The Erdman Act of 1898 to introduce mediation prior to arbitration

The Newlands Act of 1900 revised the Erdman act and established a permanent mediation board.

In WWI the government to control of the railroads.

The transportaion act of 1920. Enacted to restore the railroads to private managment and established the US raiway labor board to investigate disputes. The boards hearings replaced mediation. The Suprement court then ruled there were no means to enforce the decisions.

Howell Barkely in a bill that is hes name introduced 1925 addressed the ineffectiveness of the Transportaion Act of 1920.

This became the starting point for labor and industry leaders to join together in mutually beneficial discussions. The Bill became known as the Railway Labor Act of 1926. (pub, you are right, it would make a lot of sense to change the NAME). But the core of the Act is good. Sect 6 of the RLA governs how we bargain.

1. Negotiations

2. Mediation

3.Impasse

4.Voluntary Arbitration

5.Cooling off/Supermediation period

6. PEB

7. Self help (strike)

8. Congressional Intervention.

The RLA has been effective. Since 1975 there have been only two PEBs and 41 strikes in the industry.

The process has worked well for morethan 75 years.

The alternative is Base-ballstyle arbitration. Will explain later why this is no good for our industry or profession.

AAflyer

 

[tredding@swa]

have to disagree...

Sorry V,

Have to disagree with you on the comment;

"...and if you limit all CEO pay accross the board at all companies (i.e. limit stock options), then you get rid of the ENRON/GC/WORLDCOM temptations to make quarterly earnings look good to raise the price of your stock"

As a shareholder of many PUBLIC companies, I can't go there. These guys and girls have apid their dues and proved their worth BEFORE getting hired by these companies. If you don't like it, I suggest becoming an investor and writing letters to the Board of Directors, attending annual shareholder meetings and voting annually. The LAST thing the greatest economy on the planet needs is MORE gov't intervention & rules limiting management's pay!!

Some people STRONGLY believe that a 777 CPT is overpaid, perhaps the FAA should limit pilot pay, even better... let's give the airlines back to the government - re-regulation anyone!?!?!?

Love the dialog..... Have a great day fellow swimmers! Tredding

 

[AAflyer]

To address the other comment.

AA management has not honored the contract. They have removed code-share designators on flights to fall under the ASM cap, they have broken eagle's scope contract with the selling of their rjs to Trans States or CHQ (can't remember which one at this time). How would have thought to see the day when Eagle was getting Scoped out. They are now in the process of possibly spinning off executive arilines to release more seats. They are pulling out of cities that they probably would not have kept anyway (more expensive to operate rjs than saabs on certain routes). However they are playing to the media how it is that darn contract that is preventing them from staying in that city pair. All the while Don is screaming to Congress. I signed this contract I just can't live with anymore. SO can you get rid of it?

Eagle was originally desgined as a feed to AA. Currently almost 51% of their paxnever continue on an AA flight. With the introduction of the LGA shuttle that number drops to 48%.

With the reduction of the F-100 and the furlough of 555 pilots, but the continued purchase of RJS I am worried.

I agree with eaglefly, thingsare changing. I think now more than ever our two groups at AMR (pilot) need to come together and gain control before it is lost for ever.

AAflyer

 

[CoopDog]

Aviation Interview Board????

Gee what happened to the Aviation Interview Board? I enjoy reading all the posts here, BUT.....

Reading my old company's ALPA web-board from time to time is depressing enough. I come here for the positive info and rumors on hiring and growth. I know there ain't much these days, but I'm sure we can dig up some good rumors around here somewhere.

For those of you facing an upcoming furlough, and new to this board, WELCOME. There are some really great folks here and there's always lot's of good stuff gett'n tossed around from time to time. It's been a good source of encouragement for quite a few of us.

So feel free to post away! Please, just remember where you are, the "AVIATION INTERVIEW BOARD"

 

[BacktoAA]

Give me a break, Coopdog. Everything you read on this forum has a direct effect on whether people will ever interview for that "dream job" with a Major. Keep the perspective and lose the semantics. Would it make everybody happier if they had to dig it out of the "General" forum? Probably not.

 

[Hoss]

Who cares what the forum is named? We all know where to find the information we need.

 

[HA25]

Dog, not a lot of interviewing going on these days, sorry...

Tredding, I am a share holder (AMR alone I have 500 shares), and others. I am also an MBA in Finance (not from Wharton, Stanford or Harvard alas), so I understand this stuff well. The fact is, stock options are the reason CEO pay is out of control, most of them take a reasonable salary, it's the stock options that hurt everyone, especially the investor. These options are a)off the books, and non-expensable, b)they give incentive to maximize stock price on a short term, such as was done at Enron, Worldcom, GC, Quest, etc.... The system is basically designed as a get rich quick scheme for executives who have "insider" info, that we investors and employees don't.

btw - when are you gonna take me up on that offer to get together for a beer?

AAFlyer, as a guy who almost got a seniority # at AA(just missed it) I totally agree with you on the issue of RJ's and scope, Just watch Eagle double in size over the same time period that the F100's retire.. and APA will probably cave on this very issue, as by then US Air and UAL will have major loosining of their scope language forcing AMR to go down that road.

All this thanks to SWA, btw.

 

[publisher]

contend

I would say that AA has lived to the letter of the law, not the spirit and that we would agree on.

Unfortunately when you create something like scope that by its very nature restricts in a non competitive way what a carrier does with its assets, you invite this type of BS.

As to CEO pay, yes it is high and yes it may not seem fair. That said, no more rediculous than paying a 747 driver over $350,000 at one place and $80,000 some where else.

It si not fair, not equitable, not what you might like, it is what it is. American business

 

[HA25]

tell you what boys, if we don't come together as a profession, there will be $70,000 747 captains and $30,000 RJ captains everywhere. Don't you think that would be the way it is were it not for ALPA/APA etc...