A Southwest pilot perspective

[Ty Webb]

Ty your pretty wired yourself. Your going to fit right in. LOL!

Do I have to be a Slim Jim, or can I just be a Jerky?

 

[texman]

What kind of jerky you talking about? Rub rub tug tug, you know the ones you get down in Deeee Nang! Or just jerky? LOL!

 

[SWA/FO]

Clearly, you're writing it for yourself and a few of your fellow travelers, because most of the AirTran guys don't bother coming here anymore, or if we do, we just look, laugh and leave?

...then comeback and post.

 

[Ty Webb]

...then comeback and post.

Honestly, SWA/FO, it had gotten so unpleasant around here that I would have to go visit a Burn Unit just to cheer up.

Once we get this crap behind us, I'm sure ol' Ty will enjoy F.I. again. . . . from OAK. imp:

 

[Ty Webb]

What kind of jerky you talking about? Rub rub tug tug, you know the ones you get down in Deeee Nang! Or just jerky? LOL!

I was in...Sang Bang... Dang Gong... I was all over the place, a lot of places. I was with the Green Berets, Special Unit Battalions... Commando Airborne Tactics... Specialist Tactics Unit Battalion. Yeah, it was real hush hush. I was Agent Orange,Special Agent Orange, that was me. :uzi:

 

[texman]

I was in...Sang Bang... Dang Gong... I was all over the place, a lot of places. I was with the Green Berets, Special Unit Battalions... Commando Airborne Tactics... Specialist Tactics Unit Battalion. Yeah, it was real hush hush. I was Agent Orange,Special Agent Orange, that was me. :uzi:

Lol! I knew it. That was you!

 

[carl p]

Pilots hired in 2002:

By airTran, what were their qualifications?
By SWA, what were their qualifications?

How about 2004, how about 2007?

So now as we get ready to merge these pilots onto one list, the pilots hired by AirTran in 2004 (as an example), who are Captains at their airline get merged onto the Southwest list. Where should they be integrated? What were their career expectations; what is fair? Did they have the experience and qualifications to get hired by SWA in 2004?

In 2004 was it more desirable to get hired by SWA or AirTran?

If you got hired by SWA in 2004 is it fair that someone who got hired by AirTran gets placed ahead of you seniority-wise?

This isn't trying to say any one pilot is better than another or that one group of pilots is better than another. A lot of pilots who were hired at SWA were "lucky" as much as anything. But once they were on the list they had expectations because they were on the list. And anyone in their right mind would acknowledge that from a career-expectations standpoint SWA was a better place to go in 2004. So why hurt the folks who made it past the interview/hiring hurdle and help those who did not? That makes no sense.

Southwest pilots through SWAPA and the generosity of SWA negotiated SWAPA wages and benefits. Those benefits from a monetary standpoint (career expectations) far exceed those of airTran pilots. This isn't dissing anyone but making an objective comparison. This is part of ascertaining what is and would be fair. Salary/compensation, 401k, profit-sharing. No comparison.

If you were hired by Delta in 1989 you would be pissed if someone who got hired by AmericanEagle in 1989 was put in front of you in an acquisition.

Pilots know the more desirable career destination when they apply...

Should I go to FedEX or ABX?
Would I rather get hired by UPS or Polar? DUH!

How many AirTran pilots had applications at SWA?
How many SWA pilots had applications at AirTran?

How many former aIrTran pilots made the move to SWA (after they built the numbers to qualify)
How many former SWA pilots at airTran?

These are rhetorical questions. The career expectations of SWA pilots were much greater than what they were at AirTran (prior to the acquisition). Gary's first offer was a gigantic windfall for all the tranny pilots. The MEC snubbed SWA.

AirTran pilots didn't "earn" seniority at SWA. This is because they would not have qualified to be at SWA on the day they were hired at airTran. If they had, they would have rationally chosen to go to SWA not airTran.

Listen, I'll admit the SWA is the more desirable job but that doesn't make AT American Eagle. In my class the lowest time guy had 6,000 TT, 1200+ RJ PIC. The guys that came from Kitty Hawk with me all had 10+ years in the left seat of 727/737/DC-9 aircraft. We were unemployed and needed jobs, AT hired us quickly. The upgrade time was supposed to be 3-5 years but then the economy tanked and we were furloughed...again. We have tons more of the ex ATA, TWA, Express One, Kitty Hawk, and Midwest types than the low time regional FO. Please stop the ridiculous argument that many of us didn't meet your mins. SWA-AT is not DL-Eagle and that is an insult to your future brothers.

We are similar in size and equipment to Alaska or Jet Blue. This current deal will most likely get done and we'll be co-workers soon so lets stop dumping on each other.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Seriously?

SWA career expectations: 737 CA.
AAI career expectations: 737 CA.

End of discussion.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Huh yeah...Carl is right Luvfan... Poor choice of words in your comparison. I came to AT with three types, 6500 total time (2000 pic turbine) and 2700 hours in the 737ng. We worked hard here to make this place succeed and I understand why folks don't want give up their seniority without a fight. Most of your argument is fair but ( No offense to Eagle guys)making that comparison is somewhat insulting.

 

[luvfan]

Dear Wes

Didn't mean to insult you. Obviously you had a lot of experience and you would have qualified to fly as an airline pilot anywhere.

Two questions:

1). Did you interview at SWA (if yes, when?)

2). Did you have an app. on file at SWA after you got hired at airTran (why?).

You don't like the Delta/eagle analogy? OK it illustrates a point but it struck a nerve. The reason I used this analogy is the disparity in benefits.

No one is refuting the UPS/polar analogy.

Again, it's not aimed at an individual. The crux of this is once you were on the list you had expectations. SWA expectations were this is the final destination and last airline. AirTran list some were satisfied to be there but MANY viewed it as a place to build time, or wait until something better came along. many left the airTran gig for greener pastures (including SWA). Vice vera a isn't true. Therefore, expectations were different.

This is what fair and equitable boils down to.