A Southwest pilot perspective

[SWA Bubba]

New to this forum, first time poster. However, Reading PPRuNe and SWAPA forums containing copied Airtran postings from this and other boards has given me a taste of some of Airtran's more vocal opinionists. (although, to be fair, both airlines have their share of forum blowhards lobbing grenades at each other). I'd like to offer the perspective of the average SW pilot in response to Airtran claims of injustice, inequity, and the general idea that SWA and SWAPA are out to screw them and steal their seniority.

Here's an analogy: Suppose Sept 2010's announcement was different. Instead of hearing that Fornaro sold ATN to SWA, instead he announced that ATN had bought Great Lakes Airlines. SWA was nowhere in the mix. Further, he was commited to keeping all the employees and providing "fair and equitable" integration.

So here comes Great Lakes' NC, and they say that all they want is fair. So far, so good, right? However, a two-year GL Capt there expects to still be a Capt at the new, integrated ATN with your contract (much better than his), and and of course, double his money. Then a four-year GL Capt mentions that since he's at 10% of his seniority list, he expects to still be at 10%. After all, he holds weekends off, and expects to keep doing so. It's only fair, he says. And so on. How do you think the average AirTran pilot would react? Do you see where I'm going here?

Before you lynch me, I'm not actually equating Airtran to Great Lakes. In fact, I used this widely disparate example just to illustrate my point. And while the difference between SWA and ATN is certainly not as big as the difference between ATN and GL, there IS a big difference. It is NOT a merger of equals. Despite what ALPA national may be telling you, everyone knows this fact. They just don't want to admit it.

Anyway, for you guys who just can't believe that SWAPA would be so heartless and openly attempt to "steal" your seniority, I just want you to understand where WE are coming from. You have your perspective, and we have ours. And after all, the word "fair" is in the eye of the beholder.

I'll post some more "average" SW guy perspective later.

Bubba

 

[redflyer65]

INCOMING!






but still a great post, puts things in prospective.

 

[maru657]

Before you lynch me, I'm not actually equating Airtran to Great Lakes. In fact, I used this widely disparate example just to illustrate my point. And while the difference between SWA and ATN is certainly not as big as the difference between ATN and GL, there IS a big difference. It is NOT a merger of equals. Despite what ALPA national may be telling you, everyone knows this fact. They just don't want to admit it.


Yep, not a merger of equals, ATN has not grasped that special landing technique that southwest seems to have perfected. ATN pilots are still too busy practicing CATIII landings and international operations.

 

[maru657]

Before you lynch me, I'm not actually equating Airtran to Great Lakes. In fact, I used this widely disparate example just to illustrate my point. And while the difference between SWA and ATN is certainly not as big as the difference between ATN and GL, there IS a big difference. It is NOT a merger of equals. Despite what ALPA national may be telling you, everyone knows this fact. They just don't want to admit it.


Yep, not a merger of equals, ATN has not grasped that special landing technique that southwest seems to have perfected. ATN pilots are still too busy practicing CATIII landings and international operations.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Before you lynch me, I'm not actually equating Airtran to Great Lakes. In fact, I used this widely disparate example just to illustrate my point. And while the difference between SWA and ATN is certainly not as big as the difference between ATN and GL, there IS a big difference. It is NOT a merger of equals. Despite what ALPA national may be telling you, everyone knows this fact. They just don't want to admit it.


Yep, not a merger of equals, ATN has not grasped that special landing technique that southwest seems to have perfected. ATN pilots are still too busy practicing CATIII landings and international operations.

My Heroes! BFD!
KBB

 

[Hamburger]

And Serving Business Class customers.

 

[redflyer65]

Yep, not a merger of equals, ATN has not grasped that special landing technique that southwest seems to have perfected. ATN pilots are still too busy practicing CATIII landings and international operations.

Maru,

Not equal on ANY metric. Prove me wrong.

RF

 

[On Your Six]

New to this forum, first time poster. However, Reading PPRuNe and SWAPA forums containing copied Airtran postings from this and other boards has given me a taste of some of Airtran's more vocal opinionists. (although, to be fair, both airlines have their share of forum blowhards lobbing grenades at each other). I'd like to offer the perspective of the average SW pilot in response to Airtran claims of injustice, inequity, and the general idea that SWA and SWAPA are out to screw them and steal their seniority.

Here's an analogy: Suppose Sept 2010's announcement was different. Instead of hearing that Fornaro sold ATN to SWA, instead he announced that ATN had bought Great Lakes Airlines. SWA was nowhere in the mix. Further, he was commited to keeping all the employees and providing "fair and equitable"integration.

So here comes Great Lakes' NC, and they say that all they want is fair. So far, so good, right? However, a two-year GL Capt there expects to still be a Capt at the new, integrated ATN with your contract (much better than his), and and of course, double his money. Then a four-year GL Capt mentions that since he's at 10% of his seniority list, he expects to still be at 10%. After all, he holds weekends off, and expects to keep doing so. It's only fair, he says. And so on. How do you think the average AirTran pilot would react? Do you see where I'm going here?

Before you lynch me, I'm not actually equating Airtran to Great Lakes. In fact, I used this widely disparate example just to illustrate my point. And while the difference between SWA and ATN is certainly not as big as the difference between ATN and GL, there IS a big difference. It is NOT a merger of equals.



Despite what ALPA national may be telling you, everyone knows this fact. They just don't want to admit it.

Anyway, for you guys who just can't believe that SWAPA would be so heartless and openly attempt to "steal" your seniority, I just want you to understand where WE are coming from. You have your perspective, and we have ours. And after all, the word "fair" is in the eye of the beholder.

I'll post some more "average" SW guy perspective later.

Bubba

Of course, AT isn't Great Lakes, even though you mentioned it wasn't about comparing them (great try at making everyone feel like you were, though). It's not as big as SWA, but it too is a successful LCC with the same type planes or sizes you have, and can actually fly international routes, which your group hasn't been trusted with. Since you are so sure of your position, I think your team is ready to give a great opening statement to the arbitrators if it gets that far, and see what happens. It's very likely you will be surprised with the end results, and it will be binding.


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[wood pecker]

I'm over it and realize alpa could promise us iron clad language that a rock will sink, bet your job on it.

Then after you bet your job no one realized that alpa did not bother to check how deep the water is, how big the rock is, nor what sink means, is it submerged all the way.

As far as GL, we were pretty certain of a Midwest deal and the feeling was treat them as we would want to be treated from what I recall.

Unemployment sucks and I now tip my hat to the better gamesman, SW management.

I need some Luv and a pay raise please. Oh, that's right the 717 is not included.
My axe is buried w my alpa pin and Luv lanyard.

 

[CaptWidgeon]

Yep, not a merger of equals, ATN has not grasped that special landing technique that southwest seems to have perfected. ATN pilots are still too busy practicing CATIII landings and international operations.

is this what you believe makes us 'equals'? it's not a question of who's johnson is bigger, it's who's mgmt has made the best decisions and who's employees have contributed to the implementing the plan. ya' gotta have labor and mgmt working together to make it work. swa has that. aa, delta, continental fly to more places than airtran, does that make them better? no. we can all go to school and learn how to find london or hong kong.

why did airtran bring alpa ON prob and have such a high percentage strike vote? your mgmt sucked. mgmt/labor relations sucked. and that sucks for you/us line pukes who just want to make a living. it's not my fault and it's not yours but it's life. swa is buying aai for a reason, mgmt has a plan, and i/we are along for the ride.