A Southwest pilot perspective

[On Your Six]

I disagree. You all act like a bunch of whiny, spoiled brats who are outraged that someone might get a cookie before you do.

Until you all grow up, you'll need adults to point out the fallacy of your Canyon Blue groupthink.

Y'all are just mad because someone keeps showing you up.

(Like that "y'all"? I threw in some SWA "culture" to help you keep up.)

Well stated, and I don't mind contributing everyday if I have to. It's tough to break these Corndogs, but it will happen, and then the World will be a better place. I stll have my popcorn ready, though.


Godspeed to everyone!


OYS

 

[StrapHangar]

SWA Bubba

Also my first post...

Try to make your case with SWA acquiring Alaska Airlines.

Also an ALPA carrier. They have around 1500 or so pilots I think.

Make your argument with a more reasonable comparison.
Alaska is just a tad bit smaller than Airtran, but VERY comparable
in size regards to pilot group and any merged SLI.

My attempt to reduce the anxiety you portrayed comparing Airtran
and Great Lakes...along with reducing the hatred and disparity that
seems to be developing between two pilot groups.

Thanks

 

[scoreboardII]

Y'all are just mad because someone keeps showing you up.

.)

I'm saving this one for rebutal once the facts are in.

 

[luvfan]

Questions

Pilots hired in 2002:

By airTran, what were their qualifications?
By SWA, what were their qualifications?

How about 2004, how about 2007?

So now as we get ready to merge these pilots onto one list, the pilots hired by AirTran in 2004 (as an example), who are Captains at their airline get merged onto the Southwest list. Where should they be integrated? What were their career expectations; what is fair? Did they have the experience and qualifications to get hired by SWA in 2004?

In 2004 was it more desirable to get hired by SWA or AirTran?

If you got hired by SWA in 2004 is it fair that someone who got hired by AirTran gets placed ahead of you seniority-wise?

This isn't trying to say any one pilot is better than another or that one group of pilots is better than another. A lot of pilots who were hired at SWA were "lucky" as much as anything. But once they were on the list they had expectations because they were on the list. And anyone in their right mind would acknowledge that from a career-expectations standpoint SWA was a better place to go in 2004. So why hurt the folks who made it past the interview/hiring hurdle and help those who did not? That makes no sense.

Southwest pilots through SWAPA and the generosity of SWA negotiated SWAPA wages and benefits. Those benefits from a monetary standpoint (career expectations) far exceed those of airTran pilots. This isn't dissing anyone but making an objective comparison. This is part of ascertaining what is and would be fair. Salary/compensation, 401k, profit-sharing. No comparison.

If you were hired by Delta in 1989 you would be pissed if someone who got hired by AmericanEagle in 1989 was put in front of you in an acquisition.

Pilots know the more desirable career destination when they apply...

Should I go to FedEX or ABX?
Would I rather get hired by UPS or Polar? DUH!

How many AirTran pilots had applications at SWA?
How many SWA pilots had applications at AirTran?

How many former aIrTran pilots made the move to SWA (after they built the numbers to qualify)
How many former SWA pilots at airTran?

These are rhetorical questions. The career expectations of SWA pilots were much greater than what they were at AirTran (prior to the acquisition). Gary's first offer was a gigantic windfall for all the tranny pilots. The MEC snubbed SWA.

AirTran pilots didn't "earn" seniority at SWA. This is because they would not have qualified to be at SWA on the day they were hired at airTran. If they had, they would have rationally chosen to go to SWA not airTran.

 

[On Your Six]

Pilots hired in 2002:

By airTran, what were their qualifications?
By SWA, what were their qualifications?

How about 2004, how about 2007?

So now as we get ready to merge these pilots onto one list, the pilots hired by AirTran in 2004 (as an example), who are Captains at their airline get merged onto the Southwest list. Where should they be integrated? What were their career expectations; what is fair? Did they have the experience and qualifications to get hired by SWA in 2004?

In 2004 was it more desirable to get hired by SWA or AirTran

If you got hired by SWA in 2004 is it fair that someone who got hired by AirTran gets placed ahead of you seniority-wise?

This isn't trying to say any one pilot is better than another or that one group of pilots is better than another. A lot of pilots who were hired at SWA were "lucky" as much as anything. But once they were on the list they had expectations because they were on the list. And anyone in their right mind would acknowledge that from a career-expectations standpoint SWA was a better place to go in 2004. So why hurt the folks who made it past the interview/hiring hurdle and help those who did not? That makes no sense.

Southwest pilots through SWAPA and the generosity of SWA negotiated SWAPA wages and benefits. Those benefits from a monetary standpoint (career

expectations) far exceed those of airTran pilots. This isn't dissing anyone but making an objective comparison. This is part of ascertaining what is and would be fair. Salary/compensation, 401k, profit-sharing. No comparison.

If you were hired by Delta in 1989 you would be pissed if someone who got hired by AmericanEagle in 1989 was put in front of you in an acquisition.

Pilots know the more desirable career destination when they apply...

Should I go to FedEX or ABX?
Would I rather get hired by UPS or Polar? DUH!

How many AirTran pilots had applications at SWA?
How many SWA pilots had applications at AirTran?

How many former aIrTran pilots made the move to SWA (after they built the numbers to qualify)
How many former SWA pilots at airTran?

These are rhetorical questions. The career expectations of SWA pilots were much greater than what they were at AirTran (prior to the acquisition). Gary's

first offer was a gigantic windfall for all the tranny pilots. The MEC snubbed SWA.

AirTran pilots didn't "earn" seniority at SWA. This is because they would not have qualified to be at SWA on the day they were hired at airTran. If they had, they would have rationally chosen to go to SWA not airTran.

Almost all of what you state is subjective. You ask about career expectations, yet you both fly the same type planes. You compare pay scales, which over a career can change on a dime (look at Delta and their highest rates before BK). You compare hiring standards or applications, which again is up to the individual. What if the pilot wanted to fly out of a base near his home in Georgia? Does that make him a worse or less desirable pilot because he chose seniority over pay at Airtran? You think so. The arbitrators won't care. They will look at what each airline brings to the combined airline NOW. They will look at certain criteria, like longevity with each company, etc, but since SWA even offered same pay initially for the 717, an arbitrator may equate the 717 with the 737 because apparently SWA already did. If you end up in arbitration, you may be shocked at the eventual outcome.


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[mroadster]

Heard the new sli proposal is out via twitter. Any details on this? What's "PLAN B"?

 

[redflyer65]

Not sure what's in the proposal yet, if someone has details please post them.

Plan 'b' is to run the companies seperately.

 

[Ty Webb]

Pilots hired in 2002:

AirTran pilots didn't "earn" seniority at SWA. This is because they would not have qualified to be at SWA on the day they were hired at airTran. If they had, they would have rationally chosen to go to SWA not airTran.

This is incorrect, and just more thinly-disguised self justification. AirTran's requirements have been very similar to SWA's since 2002.

Sure, you can say SWA minimums required 1,000 turbine PIC, and AirTran minimums required 500 FAR Part 121 turbine PIC, but the truth is that both carriers were able to choose from thousands of applicants and it was a very lucky individual hired with the bare "minimums".

More importantly, why do you keep posting this type of self-deluding nonsense? Does it make you feel better when you look in the mirror?

Clearly, you're writing it for yourself and a few of your fellow travelers, because most of the AirTran guys don't bother coming here anymore, or if we do, we just look, laugh and leave? There is nothing to see here but posturing, rants, and a few truly bizarre individuals.

 

[texman]

Ty your pretty wired yourself. Your going to fit right in. LOL!

 

[mroadster]

So "PLAN B" is basically sign this or you're fired??? Seems more like Mafia negotiations. Forgetta bout it!