a question for resume writer

[TonyC]

Re: iNTERVIEWS

I have been the interview king for about 2 years,


... I'm not going to plan mind games with these people anymore either.

... they start the whole relationship off with head games....It sucks! I love aviation and I am good at what I do, but I'll be darned if I'm going to play teenager head games to get an aviation job.

That's my opinion, and I could be wrong but thats the way I feel about the new world of aviation HR departments.

Has it occurred to you that you might exude an attitude that they don't want? Careful there, I'm not accusing you of anything - - just making an observation. If you're well-qualified and you've gotten several interviews, you must ask yourself "what went wrong?" You sound to me like you're confident in your abilities and that you don't feel a need to fit any mold or conform to any arbitrary standards. I saw that attitude, probably WAS that attitude a lot in the Air Force. Potential employers need to know that they can control you, insure that you conform to their standards, that you won't become a liability to them. They would be taking too many risks by hiring an extremely competent "live wire." You might not be a "live wire," but you kinda come across that way here on the board. I'd say it's possible you come across that way in an interview, too.

There's a difference between confidence and cockiness, and between competence and compatibility. If you want to work for a company, it's your job to be compatible with that company, their values, and their goals. If that doesn't suit you, there's only 2 things you can do: start your own company, or enjoy unemployment.

My 2 cents' worth.

 

[C601]

"Do not ask questions when invited to during interviews. You are being offered a gambit; do not accept it."

Well depends on the job, a friend of mine went to 3 interviews with a large bank for a manager position in S FL, on the 2nd interview i told her, why don't you write some questions to ask. And if things where going well and it felt right ask them.

At the end of that interview they had told her, "they" felt as if she was interviewing him with the questions she asked, on the 3rd interview she was offered the position and accepted it.

 

[Resume Writer]

"Do not ask questions when invited to during interviews. You are being offered a gambit; do not accept it."

Well depends on the job, a friend of mine went to 3 interviews with a large bank for a manager position in S FL, on the 2nd interview i told her, why don't you write some questions to ask. And if things where going well and it felt right ask them.

At the end of that interview they had told her, "they" felt as if she was interviewing him with the questions she asked, on the 3rd interview she was offered the position and accepted it.

C601 -

I agree with you in many aspects. When I interview coach my non-aviation clients, I teach them to ask questions that not only show they have conducted research on the company, but also questions that are designed to see if the company will be a good fit for them. Most people do not have the intel on companies like we do in aviation. We are all pretty aware of the corporate culture at each airline.

But sometimes in aviation, asking "touchy" questions like Bobby was talking about can be the kiss of death. Learning how to ask "safe" questions is the key.

Kathy

 

[FN FAL]

My initial reaction was, "oh great!" However, I turned my attitude around and decided that I was going to make her day.

a frown is a smile turned upside down....

 

[bobbysamd]

Touchy questions

But sometimes in aviation, asking "touchy" questions like Bobby was talking about can be the kiss of death. Learning how to ask "safe" questions is the key.

I thought that asking about new aircraft and industry trends would show an interest in the company and knowledge of the business. How wrong I was.

Though the remaining irony is that Mesa acquired RJs and eventually stuck 300-hour MAPD grads in their right seats.

 

[bafanguy]

What is MAPD ? I've seen it mentioned someplace but never heard of it.

 

[bobbysamd]

MAPD

What is MAPD ? I've seen it mentioned someplace but never heard of it.

MAPD is Mesa Airlines Pilot Development. It is Mesa's flight school. Students earn their Commercial-Multi-Instrument and a two-year degree from San Juan College. Most grads interview with Mesa for FO jobs.

I don't recall any threads dedicated to MAPD, but if you run a search of it and go to the website, you'll learn about it.

Hope that helps.

 

[bafanguy]

thanks...

 

[Resume Writer]

As Promised....

Hi Everyone,

As promised, here is the skinny on the situational interview questions. If I make any grammar errors (Tony! ), I apologize in advance as I have been up since 4:30 am.

I spoke with 14 different HR people today from various places. The consensus was pretty much the same when I asked if they felt that they got better employees by asking these type of questions. They all said, "Yes!" The reasons are as follows:

1. Most told me that they could not believe the answers that came out of some people when they asked the situational questions. They said they really could not gage the type of person someone was with the "standard" interview questions. Since most people do not think well on their feet, these type of questions were very telling.

2. They said that they got an idea if people had common sense or not.

3. They said that some people, if they did not answer the questions in an effective manner, opened them up to asking further questions, if they felt there was a red flag.

4. They told me that they got a good idea how people reacted under the pressure of having to answer these type of questions.

5. Many of them said that they use these situational interview questions for their department management personnel, who are not trained HR people, so that there is a fair assessment of the candidate, not just a "gut feeling." They want their dept. managers to make decisions based on hard evidence.

Further, when I asked them about people making proper introductions when they are attending an interview, they said they formulate an opinion in the first 30 seconds, based upon handshake, confidence, eye contact, etc. They said they knew in about 3 minutes whether the person was going to go on to the next interview.

There was also an interesting conversation we had about people "asking how they did in the interview to the HR person." They said that they will not even attempt to answer that question, because some people take it as gospel. While someone may have done well in the interview, just because you did well is not an indication that you get the job. There could be someone else that is more qualified. They said they would not tell someone how they did, because not only is it a legal issue, but also, what if the person is unstable. People react in strange ways when they have been unemployed for any length of time, and they did not want to be on the receiving end of that stress.

That is all I can remember for now. It has been a really long day, my voice is shot from speaking for 7 hours and I am going to go to bed! If I think of anything else, I will certainly post it on here.

Have a great night everyone!

Kathy

 

[bobbysamd]

Situational (stress) interview questions

Thanks, Kathy!

I would definitely deflect situations where I am being asked to pit one department against the other. One can do a good interview but not be hired; by the same token one can do a bad interview but still be hired. I would just say that I hope I answered the other department's questions to its satisfaction.

I think the question of "are you interviewing us" is another gambit to avoid. I probably would deflect it with a positive response to the effect of thanking them again for giving me the opportunity to present my qualifications in person and the opportunity to meet you, etc.

If I were interviewing for a CEO-type position, or with Donald Trump, or didn't care if I was hired at that company, I might be more aggressive with my answer. But that's just me.

 

[Caveman]

I think that most interview coaching and professional resume assistance is unnecessary. Any success or failure during an interview is based mostly on your subject matter expertise, life experiences and personality, neither of which an interview coach can do much about. Wearing attire appropriate for the interview, proper grooming, and basic knowledge and use of correct english shouldn't have to be coached to a responsible adult. If you need to be told about any of these items you are not prepared to enter the professional work force.

Here are some free resume writing tips for you: Keep it to one page, use spell check, don't lie or embellish, and forget about colored paper or weird fonts. That's about it. That will work almost all of the time.

90% of this process is commen sense. The other 10% is research about the company and obtaining a little bit of interview gouge specific to that company. The one exception I'll make to hiring a pro to help you out is if that pro specializes in one specific company, such as a sim prep for a certain airline.

If you are the applicant they are looking for you'll get hired. If not, you won't. No amount of hang wringing and good cop/bad cop training scenarios will make much difference. I don't want to work for a company where in order to get a job I have to present a false impression of who I am. This is me, these are my skills and experiences, this is my personality. Take it or leave it. Neither the company or I will be happy if I'm hired under a false set of assumptions.

BTW, notice my nickname. I also don't make my kids wear bicycle helmets, I have peanuts in my house, and a dirt clod fight is a good thing for a 10 year old boy.

 

[TonyC]

I think that most interview coaching and professional resume assistance is unnecessary. Any success or failure during an interview is based mostly on your subject matter expertise, life experiences and personality, neither of which an interview coach can do much about.

...

The one exception I'll make to hiring a pro to help you out is if that pro specializes in one specific company, such as a sim prep for a certain airline.

I can sympathize with your perspective, Caveman, but this seeming contradiction baffles me. In fact, on the surface it seems hypocritical.

If you can fly, fly. If you can't, you don't deserve the job. Why should you pay someone to give you a leg up on the sim prep? That seems like cheating to me!

Sarcasm aside, it seems to me that we all have to successfully interview in order to get the job that we're good at, but the interview process often involves skills that are totally unrelated to the performance of our jobs. So, if we accept the advice of someone who knows better in order to make a good impression during the interview so we can land the job we're good at - - it's a win-win situation. The Company feels comfortable hiring us, we get hired - - we do a good job for the Company, the Company benefits from our superior job performance. If we didn't know how to interview, the company would still be looking for an employee, or they would have hired someone else, we'd still be looking for a job.

It's just being practical.

 

[Resume Writer]

I think that most interview coaching and professional resume assistance is unnecessary. Any success or failure during an interview is based mostly on your subject matter expertise, life experiences and personality, neither of which an interview coach can do much about. Wearing attire appropriate for the interview, proper grooming, and basic knowledge and use of correct english shouldn't have to be coached to a responsible adult. If you need to be told about any of these items you are not prepared to enter the professional work force.

Here are some free resume writing tips for you: Keep it to one page, use spell check, don't lie or embellish, and forget about colored paper or weird fonts. That's about it. That will work almost all of the time.

90% of this process is commen sense. The other 10% is research about the company and obtaining a little bit of interview gouge specific to that company. The one exception I'll make to hiring a pro to help you out is if that pro specializes in one specific company, such as a sim prep for a certain airline.

If you are the applicant they are looking for you'll get hired. If not, you won't. No amount of hang wringing and good cop/bad cop training scenarios will make much difference. I don't want to work for a company where in order to get a job I have to present a false impression of who I am. This is me, these are my skills and experiences, this is my personality. Take it or leave it. Neither the company or I will be happy if I'm hired under a false set of assumptions.

BTW, notice my nickname.

Caveman -

I just have to respond to your post. First, to say that resume writing and interview coaching is unnecessary is interesting at best. Let me first tell you that my clients have between a 98% to 100% success rate in getting interviews with the resumes I write for them. This includes my pilot clients - even in this tough economy. I can think of one client who tried for TWO years to get hired on at an air ambulance company and Horizon Airlines. After we did his resume, he got hired on at the air ambulance company within a few months. Six weeks after he started, he was called by Horizon for an interview. We interview prepped him. During the interview, the HR people kept telling him what great answers he had. (If you know ANYTHING about HR people, they do not tell you that in an interview.) He was hired by Horizon Airlines into the jet. He is just one example.

When I compose a resume or conduct an interview counseling session, I do not turn people into "fakes" or "phonies." I accurately state their qualifications in a specific manner that is related to their job target. When I interview prep them, I help them to understand not only the psychology behind the questions, but help them to formulate their answers based upon THEIR unique experience. My clients have an added bonus with me because I have done hiring. I know what they are looking for in a resume because I reviewed thousands of them over 6 years. In addition, I consistently interact with hiring managers to get a thorough understanding of what they are looking for on the resumes.

I have watched trends come and go over the past 17 years. I have made it a point to keep up-to-date on hiring practices for darn near every industry that someone could be targeting. I do this through subscriptions to industry publications, talking with decision makers, etc. My job is no different than yours. If you were not kept up-to-date through recurrent training, FAR changes, etc., you would not be competitive in your job.

Further, I have been quoted in the Chicago Times, in addition to other newspapers across the country because of my expertise in resume writing. They do not quote you if you have no clue what you are talking about. In addition, I serve as the Career Expert for numerous internet job sites, providing information to their candidates about hiring practices - much like I am doing on Flightinfo. I conduct job related seminars every three months for a huge job board here in PHX. They must think I know what I am talking about, because I am the only person who conducts 5 different seminars.

The analogy I use with my clients is this: Do you try to drill your own teeth or perform open heart surgery on yourself? Probably not. Everyone has expertise in a given field. I trust professionals to handle other aspects of my life where I do not have the qualifications. Your expertise is flying an airplane. Mine happens to be in the employment industry.

If people feel they can do their own resumes and prepare themselves for an interview, that is great. However, when they are not getting results, they end up seeking out a professional who can help them gain a competitive edge.

I reviewed several resumes of job seekers yesterday. You cannot believe the glaring errors that I saw. Most people have no idea how to present their qualifications in the best possible light. That is what I get paid to do.

Anyhow, I just thought I would set the record straight, that as a resume writer and interview coach, I do not turn people into something they are not. I simply help them to present their unique skills and abilities in a format that employers will read. After all, if you cannot get past the "no" pile, you will not get interviews.

Kathy

 

[TonyC]

Coincidentally, AOL featured articles yesterday about Resumes and Interviewing. At the risk of further thread creep, and at the risk of offending Kathy, I'll post an article here about Interviewers' pet peeves about resumes:

==============================================
Top 20 Recruiter Pet Peeves About Resumes
By Michael Worthington

Recently ResumeDoctor.com has surveyed 2500 recruiters across the US and Canada to find out the "Top 20 Resume Pet Peeves Recruiters have about resumes that result in a resume being tossed in the excluded pile. These recruiters stemmed from varied specialties and industries, (Engineering, Information Technology, Sales and Marketing, Executive, Biotech, Healthcare, Administrative, Finance, etc.).

When recruiters receive hundreds of resumes a day, the best strategy to narrow down the "keepers" is through the process of elimination. According to executive search recruiter Terry Cantrell of Panama City, Florida, "People often try to write a resume so generic that a reader has no idea what industry the candidate comes from. Did they manufacture fertilizer, package cow chips, cook and distribute potato chips or assemble computer chips? ... I am usually looking for a reason to exclude resumes, not a reason to include them."

More often than not, your resume will be the only tool to let your reader know why you would be the right person for the job. According to Mike Worthington at www.ResumeDoctor.com, "Just because you have 20 years of experience, does not necessary mean you have a good resume. It simply means you have 20 years of experience... You may have all the necessary skills and experience, but the way you present yourself through your resume can tell your reader all they need to know."

Listed below are the Top 20 Resume "Pet Peeves", starting with the biggest problems. More detailed insight to each problem can be found at: http://www.resumedoctor.com/ResourceCenter.htm

1. Spelling errors, typos and poor grammar

2. Too duty oriented - reads like a job description and fails to explain what the job seeker's accomplishments were and how they did so

3. Missing Dates or inaccurate dates

4. Missing Contact Info, inaccurate, or unprofessional email addresses

5. Poor formatting - boxes, templates, tables, use of header and footers, etc

6. Functional resumes as opposed to chronological resumes

7. Long Resumes - over 2 pages

8. Long, dense paragraphs - no bullet-points

9. Unqualified candidates - candidates who apply to positions they are not qualified for

10. Personal info not relevant to the job

11. Missing Employer Info and/or not telling what industry or product candidate worked in

12. Lying, Misleading, especially in terms of education, dates and inflated titles

13. Objectives or meaningless introductions

14. Poor font choice or style

15. Resumes sent in .pdf, .zip files, faxed, web page resumes, mailed resumes; not sent as a WORD attachment

16. Pictures, graphics or URL links that no recruiter will call up

17. easy-to-follow summary

18. Resumes written in 1st or 3rd Person

19. Gaps in employment

20. Burying important info in the resume

Be sure your resume does not fall under your reader's "pet peeve" list. Know how to market your skills and present yourself in a way that will make your reader want to consider you for a position. Typically, if your resume contains a few, or even one or two, of these "Pet Peeves," your resume will be automatically excluded and your chance of that job will be lost.

ResumeDoctor.com provides resume-consulting services and FREE resume evaluations for job seekers in all industries at http://www.ResumeDoctor.com/ResourceCenter.htm.

© ResumeDoctor.com, a division of PDI. This article may not be published or otherwise distributed without authorized written consent of PDI.
©
==============================================

I've seen an actual resume submitted for employment by a very competent pilot that violated #1 and/or #3 at the same time - - he misspelled a MONTH! Could he have used a resume coach? You betcha!


[Edited before someone pointed out my spelling error! ]

 

[Resume Writer]

Tony,

Thanks for posting that article. It actually proves my point. I know Mike Worthington. He is the son of another resume writer I have known for about 10 years. They are only a resume "consulting service." They charge over 2 times what I do to "help" you write your own resume. For $200, they should write it for you!

Those pet peeves are the same issues I have been hearing for years. They are nothing new. When I conduct my interview seminars, we talk about all of those issues. One seminar I conduct gets into the very technical aspects of online resume posting. The technology is very sophisticated and the human factor is another variable. So, I teach my jobseekers about all of the information necessary to be successful.

The first and third perspective writing drives me nuts also. The words, "I", "me", and "we" should never be in a resume. They belong in a cover letter. The third person writing they are talking about are words like "directs", "manages", or "directing", "managing", etc.

Thanks for posting that for everyone, Tony.

Kathy

 

[bafanguy]

RW,

Good to hear from you. Glad you escaped from the Evil HR Confederacy. TonyC's article about resume errors was interesting, but brings up a question about pilot resumes vs real people resumes ( you know, people in jobs with redeeming social value ).

Since we would be applying to an aviation company, presenting our aviation credentials, how much elaboration is required for a garden-variety line guy ? When I say I was a captain for Widget Wonderland Airlines from then until now, flying a Super X Cloudhopper, what else does one need to say ? The job describes itself; same for your licenses. When I say I have a Private license but will soon have my Commercial, they'll understand what that means. If you had some LCA, training dept., or chief pilot ( I'd be too ashamed to put that down ) experience, you can add that, but the employment, licenses, and flight time explain themselves...right ?

What else could one say except that we know you personally and mention your name as often as possible.

 

[Caveman]

Kathy,

Don't take my original comments as a personal slight towards you or your business. But make no mistake, it is your business and you are in the business of selling your services. My experience has been that myself and most of the folks I know have been successful finding excellent employment in their chosen field without the need for coaching and a resume edit from a paid professional. To some degree part of your business is to sell us on the idea that you are a vital and necessary part of the hiring process. I just disagree. I'm not saying that you have no purpose I just believe that the overall impact of your services on the typical job seeker are minimal and mainly serve to bolster someones confidence. That's not a bad thing. Even a minimal leg up is good but IMO it's not mandatory for most people to seek resume/interview help. If someone wishes to avail themselves of your services I'm sure that their resume will be better and they will be better prepared for an interview. Where we disagree is on how much 'better'. I say that for most folks it will be minimally better and you suggest it will be significantly better. I just think that for most people it probably isn't necessary. Necessary being the key word. Can you spruce them up a bit? No doubt, but probably not enough to make a significant difference. Just my opinion.


Tony,

I don't think my statement was contradictory or hypocritical. I used terms like 'most' and "90%". Nothing is absolute in the hiring process. My agreement in paying for a pre-sim prep is that it is specific in it's attempt to prepare you for a known and precisely definable evaluation as opposed to a generic attempt to prepare you for a wide range of opinion based answers to questions from varied corporate cultures. There is a case to made for professional preparation for a specific interview at a specific company with the coach having inside knowledge of the scope and tone of that companies interview process, but IMO generic interview prep has minimal value.

 

[Resume Writer]

Caveman,

No personal slight taken. BTW, I never said it was mandatory for people to get their resume prepared as part of the hiring process. However, when people get results in several interviews, they realize the value.

Also, just so you know, I do not "edit" resumes - I write them. The term edit means that you take a document and make changes to the wording or grammar. I perform full composition, top to bottom, bringing out the unique achievements and qualifications of each candidate. Just thought I would clarify that!

Kathy

 

[Resume Writer]

RW,

Good to hear from you. Glad you escaped from the Evil HR Confederacy. TonyC's article about resume errors was interesting, but brings up a question about pilot resumes vs real people resumes ( you know, people in jobs with redeeming social value ).

Since we would be applying to an aviation company, presenting our aviation credentials, how much elaboration is required for a garden-variety line guy ? When I say I was a captain for Widget Wonderland Airlines from then until now, flying a Super X Cloudhopper, what else does one need to say ? The job describes itself; same for your licenses. When I say I have a Private license but will soon have my Commercial, they'll understand what that means. If you had some LCA, training dept., or chief pilot ( I'd be too ashamed to put that down ) experience, you can add that, but the employment, licenses, and flight time explain themselves...right ?

What else could one say except that we know you personally and mention your name as often as possible.

Everyone has unique qualifications - even in the aviation industry. I bring out those qualifications that people do not think to include. In addition, format is very important. It needs to be easy to read, with pertinent information in the correct order.

And no, the employment really does not explain itself. Not every corporate aviation department runs the same way. (that is just one example)

Kathy

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Caveman, it helps to know the HR lingo when doing interviews. If you had a non-instrament pilot not know what an ILS was, what would you think? It's the same thing.