A letter to a Delta Friend

[Cobra17]

He defines "premium paying" widebody aircraft by size and range. DL's "non-premium" widebodies are both more numerous and pay more than NWA's.

I'd rather fly a "non-premium" 757 at Delta if it pays, say $15 more per hour than the A330 at year 3.

I'm not sure I understand the importance of the size of the aircraft when analyzing who is bringing what to the table. Isn't pay more important?

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/northwest.html

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/delta.html

Yikes! Hope you're not on the NC. You must have a short memory.

United and Delta both gave up a lot in scope in 2000-2001 in exchange for their big pay raises with WB Capts topping out at over $300,000+ a year.

Those pay scales are long gone, but there are still plenty of RJs flying around in United and Delta liveries.

While I'm sure you are worth $15/hr more than any NWA pilot, there is a lot more to negotiating a contract than basic pay rates.

 

[FL510in10min]

I doubt there would be any provision for that

 

[General Lee]

Yikes! Hope you're not on the NC. You must have a short memory.

United and Delta both gave up a lot in scope in 2000-2001 in exchange for their big pay raises with WB Capts topping out at over $300,000+ a year.

Those pay scales are long gone, but there are still plenty of RJs flying around in United and Delta liveries.

While I'm sure you are worth $15/hr more than any NWA pilot, there is a lot more to negotiating a contract than basic pay rates.

And maybe you didn't hear about the 75 50 seat RJs we are parking? And thanks for bringing up the way we negotiate. I guess you didn't see that we just made a Letter of Agreement with management (which we are voting on now) thanks to our own scope language about flying a seperate airline within an airline? Our contract said none of that could occur without our YES, and same goes for codeshares. So, we were the ones holding up this merger--and management had to come to us for agreement. (Codeshares with NWA and Midwest had to be approved by us). So, as you can see, we didn't ONLY have better pay rates. Scope doesn't only deal with RJs.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[licorice]

Then why does it pay only 10% more than NWA 757? Same as all the other category comparisons. If it was truly brought up to a higher category's rate then wouldn't it be a greater % more than every other comparison?

Sure did. Why? Because 100% of the flying on them is international. Is 100% of DAL 757/767 flying international?

dtw: DAL has 59 767-300ER, 17 757-200ER (all in the same catagory, flying international with the $5 overide,and all paying $165/hr) and 21 767-400ER(different catagory, all international, with the $5 overide paying $186/hr) There are 21 domestic 767-300's and 120 757's paying a "measly" $160/hr. Is that enough international flying? Are you trying to make the case that there is more A-330 international at NWA than there is 767 international at DAL? You would be wrong. If you are saying the A-330 is a "higher" category than the 767-300ER I would agree, LOA19 establishes the A-330 rate higher than the 767ER rate.(but about the same as the 767-400) If you are saying your 757 fleet is the "equivalent" of our 767ER fleet you would be wrong.

 

[DTW320]

dtw: DAL has 59 767-300ER, 17 757-200ER (all in the same catagory, flying international with the $5 overide,and all paying $165/hr) and 21 767-400ER(different catagory, all international, with the $5 overide paying $186/hr) There are 21 domestic 767-300's and 120 757's paying a "measly" $160/hr. Is that enough international flying? Are you trying to make the case that there is more A-330 international at NWA than there is 767 international at DAL?

Are you incapable of following a thread? Apparently. I notice you didn't answer the ? about why DL international 767-300ER only pays 10% more than domestic NWA 757, the same differential that exists between every NW/DAL comparison, yet we are to believe that the DL 757 was "brought up" to 767 rates. Gee, if it hadn't been then I guess it would pay the same as NWA 757 and would be the only case of parity between common airplanes in the two fleets.....Riiiiiight.

Are you trying to make the case that there is more A-330 international at NWA than there is 767 international at DAL?

As a percentage of the total flying that they do....YES. I was not making that some battle cry as you Deltoids desperately try to insinuate. I was correcting an earlier post that said DL757 pays more than NW A330 and pointing out that in 100% of the scheduled flying the NWA 330 pilot is getting $5.17/hr($3.88 FO) Intl Override. 100% of DAL 767 flying does not. Excuse me for trying to, yet again, convince the average deltoid to compare apples to apples.

 

[General Lee]

Are you incapable of following a thread? Apparently. I notice you didn't answer the ? about why DL international 767-300ER only pays 10% more than domestic NWA 757, the same differential that exists between every NW/DAL comparison, yet we are to believe that the DL 757 was "brought up" to 767 rates. Gee, if it hadn't been then I guess it would pay the same as NWA 757 and would be the only case of parity between common airplanes in the two fleets.....Riiiiiight.
As a percentage of the total flying that they do....YES. I was not making that some battle cry as you Deltoids desperately try to insinuate. I was correcting an earlier post that said DL757 pays more than NW A330 and pointing out that in 100% of the scheduled flying the NWA 330 pilot is getting $5.17/hr($3.88 FO) Intl Override. 100% of DAL 767 flying does not. Excuse me for trying to, yet again, convince the average deltoid to compare apples to apples.

What about those NFL charters on the A330? You said 100% of the flying gets the INTL override. You are WRONG 319. (But I did notice you added "scheduled" flying this time thanks to my previous post)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[licorice]

Are you incapable of following a thread? Apparently. I notice you didn't answer the ? about why DL international 767-300ER only pays 10% more than domestic NWA 757, the same differential that exists between every NW/DAL comparison, yet we are to believe that the DL 757 was "brought up" to 767 rates. Gee, if it hadn't been then I guess it would pay the same as NWA 757 and would be the only case of parity between common airplanes in the two fleets.....Riiiiiight.
As a percentage of the total flying that they do....YES. I was not making that some battle cry as you Deltoids desperately try to insinuate. I was correcting an earlier post that said DL757 pays more than NW A330 and pointing out that in 100% of the scheduled flying the NWA 330 pilot is getting $5.17/hr($3.88 FO) Intl Override. 100% of DAL 767 flying does not. Excuse me for trying to, yet again, convince the average deltoid to compare apples to apples.

DTW: I don't know why the 76/75ER fleet pays 14.6%(int'l overide, apples to apples?) more than the domestic NWA 757 (your comparison, in your original post) but only, say, 7% between the dom. 75/76 at DAL and the NWA int'l 757? I guess it's because of all the permutations involved in adding or not adding $5/hr to various fleets. $167/$165=1.012 or 1.2% "premium" for the A-330vs76/75ER. Yes 167 is greater than 165, just as 17% is greater than 5%(the increase in pay for NWA 757 capt. vs. DAL 757 capt.-domestic, under LOA 19) The reason the domestic 767 (21 aircraft) pay is "only" 11% more than the domestic NWA 757? I don't know, was the 75 brought up or the 76 brought down, or a little of both? How about this: the NWA payrate under LOA 19 for your 757 int'l will be $173/hr, 3.5% more than your current A-330 rates! You are right, I am sometimes incapable of following a thread, I did "jump the gun" a little bit, my apologies. There have been numerous posts on other threads that appear to try to marginalize the 767 flying at DAL (ie. not "really" a widebody, not "premium" flying, pays "only" 10% mor--oops! -just kidding! etc., etc.)