A letter to a Delta Friend

[Cobraair75drvr]

If dalpa does not give anymore up on scope then they will have to eventually order a 9 replacement. Just as the 78s will be the 76 replacement and my guess the 777-300 or whatever its called(the real long mofo I saw in hkg) will replace the 400s. Get my drift. As scope stands now there is too large a gap btw the 76 seaters and the mds/319s. The only way this order will not happen is one or both sides allowing it.

I would love to see the joint contract address the issue by getting management to commit to a 100 seat mainline (-9 replacement) order in writing. It would go along way toward resolving a lot of uncertainty for both groups. We need to do it while we have the leverage. No one here is going to give any more ground on scope.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

"Premium" wide body flying.....

Whatever....wide body is a wide body.....now somebody wants to make it extra extra extra premium???

I can't wait for these guys to come over and pollute the water

 

[Noserider76]

If dalpa does not give anymore up on scope then they will have to eventually order a 9 replacement. Just as the 78s will be the 76 replacement and my guess the 777-300 or whatever its called(the real long mofo I saw in hkg) will replace the 400s. Get my drift. As scope stands now there is too large a gap btw the 76 seaters and the mds/319s. The only way this order will not happen is one or both sides allowing it.

I get your drift but DL has been operating happily (it seems) with nothing between 76 seats and 142 seats (MD-88s) since we retired the 737-200/300s several years ago. My guess is that the DC-9-30s would have been gone if they weren't a common cockpit with the -50s.

I want to see the company locked into a commitment that that flying will be replaced with mainline so those jobs don't vaporize as thousands have done at both of our companies. I was 9000 something on the list when I was hired and we topped out at around 10500 or so. Now were at around 7500 and we've been lower. We need as much insurance as possible to avoid a repeat in the future.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

They haven't been very happy with the gap. They've been making do is more the appropriate description. There was active pursuance of the Embraer 190 series, but they decided they didn't want to have an airplane and leases that would be just a stand in until boeing comes out with their next narrowbody with the 787 engine tech.

That came from the horses mouth, so to speak.





BTW, what is all this about "the 767 paying the same as the 757" from the letter? The 757 pay rates are the same as the 767, however you look at it...and however you look at it, it pays more per hour than the A330. So, I look at it as our 757 pays more than the A330. Happy?

Also, I do agree the A330 is a far superior machine to the 767-400. That came as a surprise to see it listed the way it was in the LOA. Those aircraft aren't on our property anyways, so I looked at those as phantom aircrat that don't exist and won't exist on our seniority list until we are fully integrated operation.



Both carriers have strong career outlooks and both have tremendous strengths. This is more a merger of equals on most respects, in my eye. I assume lets go to arbitration for the SLI and get it over with (that is what is going to happen anyways- there will be b*tching from both sides as usual, too.)


Regardless, let's get a joint contract and all get more money in our pockets.

 

[Sedona16]

The "Premium Widebody" horse hockey is just the sort of semantics that piss the other side off and make people dig their feet in. I want to get the differences worked out on both sides as quickly as possible but when I read this childish attempt to grab more of the pie as it were it sure makes it hard to be sympathetic or listen to anything a NWA guys says next.

In fact now I read:

Northwest, Delta pilots plan to meet next week

Associated Press
Published on: 05/09/08
Minneapolis —- Pilots at Northwest Airlines say they'll meet with Delta pilots for two days next week to begin working out a joint contract.
The two pilot groups tried but failed to work out their differences before last month, when the two airlines announced their plans to join together.

The pilots failed to put together their seniority lists. Those seniority rankings are important to pilots because they determine who gets desirable planes and schedules.

A hot-line message from the Northwest pilots union says the meeting next week will focus on a joint contract, with seniority issues to come later.
Northwest pilots say they oppose the deal with Delta right now because they were left out. Delta pilots support it. The airlines don't need pilot permission to join.

....and now knowing how the northwest guys are trying to game the merge I say forget bringing them on to the new payrates prior to arbitration if thats the way they want to go. Let the PAY RATE DIFFERENCES ride and let the arbitrator see what pays more as currently locked and the northwest guys can say words like "premium widebody" till blue in the face but it will avail them nothing.

 

[Superpilot92]

It should priority number 1 to secure all flying at the mainline level. There is nothing worth giving away our jobs. It needs to be in the joint contract that any further aircraft go on the mainline ticket. Giving away the 100 seat flying would be detrimental to the New DAL. that flying needs to be done at the mainline level or the dc9s and dc9-80s will fall victim just as the 737-200's and 300's did. Whether its E-190s the new C-series or if Boeing ever comes through with a new hundred seater they belong at mainline. Priority #1

 

[Superpilot92]

Both carriers have strong career outlooks and both have tremendous strengths. This is more a merger of equals on most respects, in my eye. I assume lets go to arbitration for the SLI and get it over with (that is what is going to happen anyways- there will be b*tching from both sides as usual, too.)


Regardless, let's get a joint contract and all get more money in our pockets.

Great post!! I agree

 

[DrewBlows]

Does that "dynamic seniority" apply to both ends of the list? If you are trying to keep NWA pilots in NWA airplanes, then it should also be NWA pilots who feel the pinch of a retiring NWA airframe.

Of course. There is contention over future retirements at each company, "dynamic seniority" takes that factor out of the combined list. Once you agree to that you only have to figure out the proper ratio based on all of the other factors mentioned here. It still isn't simple but it solves a HUGE SLI issue so they can move on.

 

[jetflier]

It should priority number 1 to secure all flying at the mainline level. There is nothing worth giving away our jobs. It needs to be in the joint contract that any further aircraft go on the mainline ticket. Giving away the 100 seat flying would be detrimental to the New DAL. that flying needs to be done at the mainline level or the dc9s and dc9-80s will fall victim just as the 737-200's and 300's did. Whether its E-190s the new C-series or if Boeing ever comes through with a new hundred seater they belong at mainline. Priority #1

The replacement aircraft for the 100 -125 seat DC-9 must pay at least what the current payscale is. If ALPA caved on the payscale to bring a "regional" jet, "ERJ, 170-195 on the property, they will have succeeded in replacing higher paying pilot positions. And according to latest media reports, the Regional Airline Association is pushing to replace their inefficient 50 seat birds with bigger 120 seat regional jets, or be forced out of the business altogether.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Jetflyer:

Need to get them on the property first. Reference DAL's 737-700's that now pay -800 rates. You are senior enough to not have to bid it if you do not want to. But, if the DC9's are replaced (as I think they will be) there might not be enough slots to go around and your relative seniority decreases.

It should priority number 1 to secure all flying at the mainline level.

Priority #1

Agreed!

Let me add to that. The SLI would not be as big a problem if being at the bottom of the list with the DC9's future being uncertain was not such a problem. A better scope solution would take a lot of heat off the SLI for junior Captains and FO's.

 

[DTW320]

BTW, what is all this about "the 767 paying the same as the 757" from the letter? The 757 pay rates are the same as the 767, however you look at it...and however you look at it, it pays more per hour than the A330. So, I look at it as our 757 pays more than the A330. Happy?

Um, no....because, actually, it doesn't!

 

[FlyingSig]

Um, no....because, actually, it doesn't!

You're right. A A330 Capt makes $162/hr right now and a DAL 757 Capt. makes $160/hr right now.

How many NWA A330 Capts are there vs. DAL 757 Capts?

Now add the higher paying eqipment of the 767-400 ($181) and the 777 ($191) and compare those numbers to the 747 ($179)and the non-existant 787 ($165).

How many 747 Capts vs 767-400 and 777 Capt?

 

[DTW320]

You're right. A A330 Capt makes $162/hr right now and a DAL 757 Capt. makes $160/hr right now.Actually, A330 CA's make $167/hr due to 100% of A330 flying being international.

How many NWA A330 Capts are there vs. DAL 757 Capts? 350 A330 CA's

Now add the higher paying eqipment of the 767-400 ($181) and the 777 ($191) and compare those numbers to the 747 ($179)($184)and the non-existant 787 ($165)($170).

How many 747 Capts vs 767-400 and 777 Capt? 315 747CA's

You're 767's pay 10% more than our 757's. Just like your 737's pay 10% more than our A320/319. I simply corrected Peanuckle's statement that DAL 767's pay more than NWA A330's. No need to get your double-breasted panties in a wad.

You're right.

Thanks.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Sorry, I should have specified. FO payrates up through year 7-8 or so are higher on the 767/757 than the 330. I'm not a smart man, but I do know what love is.

 

[GogglesPisano]

... this just in ...

Monday, May 12, 2008 - 4:07 PM EDT
Steenland: Fuel costs may shrink merged Delta/NorthwestAtlanta Business Chronicle

Minneapolis-St. Paul will retain a "vibrant" hub and a substantial number of jobs if a Delta-Northwest merger moves forward, Northwest Airlines Corp. CEO Doug Steenland told business leaders Monday. But he said that soaring fuel costs may ultimately shrink local operations.

Speaking at a meeting of the St. Paul Area Chamber of Commerce, Steenland said the combined carrier will keep its reservation offices, data center and flight-training facility open following the close of the deal. Overall, he expects the deal to have a similar impact on the Twin Cities as the 1998 merger between Minneapolis-based Norwest Corp. and San Francisco-based Wells Fargo; In that deal, Minneapolis lost a corporate headquarters, but ultimately gained more jobs.

But Steenland cautioned that with the price of oil soaring, it's hard to predict how many workers the carrier will employ into the future. "This can only go on so long," Steenland said, of airlines absorbing the high price of fuel. "Fuel costs will have to be passed onto consumers. That will mean higher fares, so we'll see demand come down, and the airline will have to shrink."

Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines Inc. (NYSE: DAL) and Northwest (NYSE: NWA) last week began crafting a plan for integrating the carriers, Steenland said. The companies expect the merger to close by the end of the year. Northwest may operate as a standalone airline for a full year after the deal wraps up, he said.

While the combined airline's headquarters will be based in Atlanta, the merged company will continue to have a big presence in the Twin Cities. "What won't be different is that Minneapolis-St. Paul will continue to be a vibrant, robust hub," Steenland said.

The airline also will continue to support Twin Cities cultural institutions and non-profits, he said.