A-320 ETOPs ? VA yesterday

[Flyer1015]

The A320NEOs could do SFO-HNL and yes VA is hiring an ETOPS manager.

 

[Old School 737]

Read my post. I never said anything about how, why, where ETOP proving runs can be done. I just said it was not a proving run, it was a new aircraft delivery.

New delivery??? Over the pacific?? Thought A320's were make in France? Also the crew was chatting on 123.45 with a UsAir crew. They said they were flying to test the route out? see if it could do it?? Could have been BS but VA guy was asking the Cactus guy about somebody he knew was trying to get on the airways flight.

 

[Flyby1206]

VX ETOPS Program Manager job posting:

https://www.virginamerica.apply2job...ction=mExternal.showJob&RID=863&CurrentPage=1

Published Job Title: ETOPS Program Manager Airport Location: Virgin America HQ
Country: United States
State: California
City: Burlingame
Description: Meet Virgin America

Virgin America is a brand new airline dedicated to making flying good again. Virgin America incorporates the Virgin Brand’s world-renowned customer focus and distinctive style, to create a high-value, low-fare airline that’s reinventing domestic flying through award-winning service and innovative amenities.

Are you Virgin enough? Virgin America loves team members with the thirst and creativity to make this the most wowed airline in the sky. In return, we promise to make this a company where inspired people like you will always thrive.

Main Areas of Responsibility

• Participate actively in the development and approval of ETOPS requirements, defining the processes and procedures and facilitating approval of Operations Specs.
• Ensure ongoing compliance with all ETOPS processes and procedures in accordance with approved program.
• Interface with the FAA as required and ensure continued compliance with all regulatory requirements for an ETOPS Maintenance Program.
• Communicate with the executive management on the ETOPS fleet reliability at scheduled Reliability Meetings
• Communicate daily operational issues with the appropriate departments as well as the FAA if required.
• Coordinate all changes to the ETOPS maintenance program and manual with the appropriate departments within Tech Ops as well as other divisions as applicable
• Review, monitor, and evaluate aircraft, maintenance program and process changes for potential impact to the ETOPS program.
• Monitor Reliability Data for the Airbus A320F fleet for adverse trends that could affect the ETOPS fleet and participate in the event investigations process as required.
• Review, monitor, and evaluate ETOPS related alerts.
• Interface with the industry on regulatory changes
• Interface with the FAA (regional and headquarters) personnel regarding new or revised proposed rulemaking affecting ETOPS
• Monitor new station and/or city pair startup as well as existing ETOPS designated maintenance stations for trained personnel, adequate tools and equipment and adhering to approved ETOPS processes and procedures
• Monitor configuration status of ETOPS fleet
• Prepare and file ETOPS authority applications with FAA
• Prepare monthly ETOPS operating summaries and associated reports.
• Reports to Director of Engineering

Professional Experience Required

• Must have a minimum three years prior ETOPS program management experience.
• Must possess the ability to read and understand diagrams, manuals, and technical documents.
• Must possess the ability to read and understand regulatory documents, and demonstrate knowledge of FAA requirements related to ETOPS program.
• Must have the ability to develop conclusions based upon analysis of aircraft ETOPS related problems.
• Must demonstrate a strong working knowledge of aircraft systems.

Professional Certifications and Education Required

• Airframe & Powerplant license required.
• Prefer experience with TRAX.
• Prefer prior Engineering, Reliability or Maintenance Program experience.

 

[Flyiguy]

New delivery??? Over the pacific?? Thought A320's were make in France? Also the crew was chatting on 123.45 with a UsAir crew. They said they were flying to test the route out? see if it could do it?? Could have been BS but VA guy was asking the Cactus guy about somebody he knew was trying to get on the airways flight.

Sorry, my bad. I read it as an Atlantic crossing.

 

[Tomct]

Head,

Yes, VX will be going to Hawaii. Pick up our first Bus w/ winglet's, which will make the crossing in Sept of 13'. Going to be a very good route for us as well...lots of requests from our guests for the route.

 

[jonjuan]

Head,

Yes, VX will be going to Hawaii. Pick up our first Bus w/ winglet's, which will make the crossing in Sept of 13'. Going to be a very good route for us as well...lots of requests from our guests for the route.

Very good? Meaning full seats? Have you seen the yields to Hawaii?

 

[Old School 737]

Head,

Yes, VX will be going to Hawaii. Pick up our first Bus w/ winglet's, which will make the crossing in Sept of 13'. Going to be a very good route for us as well...lots of requests from our guests for the route.

I thought they were Sharklets.... Or whatever

 

[Flyer1015]

Very good? Meaning full seats? Have you seen the yields to Hawaii?

One of the problems with Hawaii is that flights have boatloads of non-revs, both ways.

 

[Snapshot]

One of the problems with Hawaii is that flights have boatloads of non-revs, both ways.

Not if you restrict it. 10 seats out of 160 go to no revs.

The company is pretty agressive in pushing for approvals.

They got around those pesky Cabotage rules by buying off the Regulators...Why would ETOPs be any different?

Who's the current Secretary of ETOPs? Look for him to be on the board of directors next to (bought and paid for) Samuel Skinner.


Do they think they're fooling anyone?

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Give it a rest Snapshot. We got around those pesky cabotage rules by being 75% US owned and proved it twice. I think your leather helmet has shrunk while you were in it.

We will be applying for 180 minute ETOPS to do HI. In order to do that, a certain experience level is required, hence the delivery flights under ETOPS. We also plan to do CUN with a more efficient routing. Not sure if doing this route under ETOPS rules vs simple extended over water will count in the experience requirement, but that's the plan.

 

[MTV]

" We also plan to do CUN with a more efficient routing."


How would any route to Cancun from the U.S. require ETOPS?

 

[wmuflyguy]

New delivery??? Over the pacific?? Thought A320's were make in France? Also the crew was chatting on 123.45 with a UsAir crew. They said they were flying to test the route out? see if it could do it?? Could have been BS but VA guy was asking the Cactus guy about somebody he knew was trying to get on the airways flight.

Airbus has an A320 final assembly plant in Tianjin, China. Opened in 2009 I believe.

 

[wscrj]

" We also plan to do CUN with a more efficient routing."


How would any route to Cancun from the U.S. require ETOPS?

One from HI.....

 

[Ralph Cramden]

" We also plan to do CUN with a more efficient routing."


How would any route to Cancun from the U.S. require ETOPS?

Read the next sentence after the one you quoted. There is such a thing as doing something in excess of the requirements in order to further a goal.

 

[MTV]

The reason I ask is the fact that ETOPS does not help with a more efficient routing to CUN from any U.S. city pairs.

Hawaii notwithstanding.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

The reason I ask is the fact that ETOPS does not help with a more efficient routing to CUN from any U.S. city pairs.

Hawaii notwithstanding.

Yes, the routing is the same as the usual extended overwater route vs the 162 nm rule route. The ETOPS MX & MEL compliance experience is the difference and necessary to get the A320 from 120 minute to 180 minute ETOPS.

Since we do not presently have EOW in our ops specs, just the 162 MN exemption it will save us time on route.

And I don't think the A320 has the legs to do HNL CUN nonstop, but I wouldn't mind such a pairing in something bigger some day!

 

[Old School 737]

Airbus has an A320 final assembly plant in Tianjin, China. Opened in 2009 I believe.

China to SFO? I think you would have to fly up and over though Alaska for that.. ??

 

[CesnaCaptn]

China to SFO? I think you would have to fly up and over though Alaska for that.. ??

Great circle route cuts right over top of Cold Bay, AK.

 

[MTV]

China to SFO? I think you would have to fly up and over though Alaska for that.. ??

The China to SFO route can be done through Japan to Guam and or Fuel stops in the Marshall Islands to Hawaii or S. Korea through Wake Island to Hawaii.

Lots of places to stop for fuel from Asia to Hawaii as long as you can make Hawaii to the west coast for a Pacific crossing.

 

[Squirrel29]

Yes, the routing is the same as the usual extended overwater route vs the 162 nm rule route. The ETOPS MX & MEL compliance experience is the difference and necessary to get the A320 from 120 minute to 180 minute ETOPS.

Since we do not presently have EOW in our ops specs, just the 162 MN exemption it will save us time on route.

And I don't think the A320 has the legs to do HNL CUN nonstop, but I wouldn't mind such a pairing in something bigger some day!

So the aircraft dont have dual HF? The Gulf does have a portion where you do enter class II airspace. You either need dual HF or you can apply for a exemption to operate without it.

 

[dicko]

So the aircraft dont have dual HF? The Gulf does have a portion where you do enter class II airspace. You either need dual HF or you can apply for a exemption to operate without it.

Dual HF, or HF and Satcom ? If class II Nav requires dual HF then somebodies in trouble ........

 

[get2flyin]

The reason I ask is the fact that ETOPS does not help with a more efficient routing to CUN from any U.S. city pairs.

Hawaii notwithstanding.

I'm not sure I'd bet the farm on that. Without ETOPS, what's the limit, 162 Miles off shore? That means no cutting across the gulf. From the tip of the Mexican Peninsula to the nearest point in the US (excluding staying 162 miles off the Florida and Cuban coast) it's >520 miles to Southern Louisiana. A more realistic routing from SFO is about 2300 miles of which a >650 mile segment from Southern TX is over the Gulf.

EDIT: PHX to PANC is > 2500 miles and the AWA (ahem, USAir) Airbuses can do that so I'm not sure leg length is the issue.

I'm just a rookie Airbus guy, though. I don't fly that big boy, experienced pilot ETOPS stuff and maybe I'm figuring it wrong.

 

[SKC]

The 162nm rule for ops without rafts. With rafts (non ETOPS), you're limited to the one hour from an alternate or ~300nm.

 

[uhdt]

SKC is correct....Op Spec A013 allows operations up 162NM off a coast- "Conduct extended overwater turbojet operations without the required emergency equipment" (life rafts). The AR routes on the east coast are all within 162NM for example. ETOPS allows operation greater the 60 minutes from an adequate airport (for a 2 engine aircraft), has nothing to do with flying over the Gulf.... a B757-200 60 minute range (1 engine out, still air) is about 435NM

 

[tzskipper]

SKC is correct....Op Spec A013 allows operations up 162NM off a coast- "Conduct extended overwater turbojet operations without the required emergency equipment" (life rafts). The AR routes on the east coast are all within 162NM for example. ETOPS allows operation greater the 60 minutes from an adequate airport (for a 2 engine aircraft), has nothing to do with flying over the Gulf.... a B757-200 60 minute range (1 engine out, still air) is about 435NM

This is the crux of the issue as I read it. As of now, VA is limited to the 162nm limitation on the SFO/LAX - CUN flights requiring an excessive routing near land when crossing the east coast of mainland Mexico over the gulf to CUN. In order to exceed the 162nm limitation (out to an approximate 300nm limit) VA needs to install life rafts. VA's plan seems to be to proceed with ETOPS certification, which will both satisfy the CUN "shortcut" and eventually allow for west coast/Hawaii service.

S

 

[Headfake14]

The 162nm rule for ops without rafts. With rafts (non ETOPS), you're limited to the one hour from an alternate or ~300nm.

A320 is just over 400nm off shore.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

This is the crux of the issue as I read it. As of now, VA is limited to the 162nm limitation on the SFO/LAX - CUN flights requiring an excessive routing near land when crossing the east coast of mainland Mexico over the gulf to CUN. In order to exceed the 162nm limitation (out to an approximate 300nm limit) VA needs to install life rafts. VA's plan seems to be to proceed with ETOPS certification, which will both satisfy the CUN "shortcut" and eventually allow for west coast/Hawaii service.

S

Bingo! You got it.

We will need ETOPS "experience" to push the new sharklet & NEO busses from 120 minute to 180 minute ETOPS. Mexico routings will be one of the ways to get it. The other is conducting the delivery flights under ETOPS, even though we could do them FAR 91.

Our current 162 mile authorization is only for the Gulf Of Mexico, we currently have to comply with 50 NM on the PVR routings.

 

[SKC]

A320 is just over 400nm off shore.

Oops, yep, I was incorrect on that number. It's been four years since I've planned any ETOPs flts so I was a tad low.

 

[bizicmo]

SFO-CUN isn't ETOPS. And delivery flights are Part 91, no ETOPS required.

I guess it depends on the route you take to CUN

 

[MTV]

Bingo! You got it.

We will need ETOPS "experience" to push the new sharklet & NEO busses from 120 minute to 180 minute ETOPS. Mexico routings will be one of the ways to get it. The other is conducting the delivery flights under ETOPS, even though we could do them FAR 91.


You can be certified 180 minute ETOPS initally without first holding 120 Minute certification.

MTV