50 seat Jets. Uncertain future?

[General Lee]

I doubt it.

I think once the retirements start, mgmt is going to delay replacement hiring as a tactic to keep your list moving. You'll all be working a lot, moving up the list. Hiring will underpace attrition until you're all convinced the list movement will never stop and are dreaming about getting off reserve, upgrading, whatever. Then, mgmt will offer you a HUGE raise for <100 seat relief.

At that point, you'd be dumb not to agree...and God forbid your wives ever find out you voted no to a ~85-100% pay raise during an era of unprecedented list movement...you'll NEVER hear the end of that one.

There are limits to what we can fly each month. United has no limit, and most of them have 95 hour lines (with credit, not all flying), and 12 days off a month for some lineholders, thanks to their contract. Ours is better.

As far as allowing anything over 76 seats, that is a big NOPE. Everyone still here from both sides have seen what has happened to routes, commuting, etc. That means lots of bad attitudes towards allowing it, and that doesn't look good for your prospects. You say we could be offered a 85%-100% raise? That is what happens normally when you move up aircraft and seats. (probably closer to 50% raise, if you move up category and seat) A new contract is due at the end of the next year, and rumors abound state management wants to conclude it quickly (they already are negotiating right now, including just fixing recovery flying during IOEs, traded for newhires getting a 1 year freeze on their equipment, which wasn't the case before), primarily because there may be more consolidation prospects out there, and nobody wants to be negotiating during that period. The raises will be there regardless. $952 million in bag fees last year means there will be room to negotiate.

What I find amusing is that you would rather wait for 100 seaters at your current airline, than get hired and move up the normal ladder. All you have is "hope" that scope will errode. It just won't, and your 50 seaters will continue to leave thanks to higher gas, leaving your company to maybe turn out like Comair eventually. Those guys thought after 9-11 that they had the World by the ballz. These days, they don't look the same. You may want to throw out some apps someday, unless you are scared to interview like some on here. You are starting to sound grouchy like Joe Merchant, and look how far that has gotten him......nowhere. You can take the Freebrd route and fly CR9s in Da Nang......idiotic.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[johnpeace]

As far as allowing anything over 76 seats, that is a big NOPE.

It's a big NOPE now...my contention is that it won't remain so. The playing field will change in time.

What I find amusing is that you would rather wait for 100 seaters at your current airline, than get hired and move up the normal ladder.

I'm not actually waiting for anything, but don't see myself ever expending any effort to get hired by another airline.

 

[FishandFly]

General Lee, Your non-response must indicate that you cried like a little girl and vowed to spend the rest of your days trying to pay back all the horrible people out there.

One question you might answer. If you and your pilot group were 100% inept in defending scope the first time around why should anyone (us or your management) think you will accomplish anything when pressed this time around?

 

[flyboyike]

One question you might answer. If you and your pilot group were 100% inept in defending scope the first time around why should anyone (us or your management) think you will accomplish anything when pressed this time around?

So far he hasn't even answered my question, which was a lot less threatening, so I'll go ahead and repeat it. What is the mainline pilot group (or at least GL personally) prepared to give up in order to hold the line on scope? Negotiations are a give-and-take game, so if scope is no-go, something else must be not a no-go. What is that something(s)?

 

[General Lee]

General Lee, Your non-response must indicate that you cried like a little girl and vowed to spend the rest of your days trying to pay back all the horrible people out there.

One question you might answer. If you and your pilot group were 100% inept in defending scope the first time around why should anyone (us or your management) think you will accomplish anything when pressed this time around?

Non-response? Riiight. It won't happen. Clear as mud for you? Comprehension was never your strong suit. What you have to remember is that MOST of the people who allowed it in the past are now retired and GONE. What's left is a bunch of pizzed off pilots that have watch 9-11, BK, and RJs ruin this career.

And this was pressed again, in the joint contract with NWA after the merger. RJ Scope did NOT get weaker, so why do you and others think it will again? A BK could change things, but none is in sight at all, and that isn't good news for you LAZY RJ lifers who want handouts. Look at Comair for your answers.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

So far he hasn't even answered my question, which was a lot less threatening, so I'll go ahead and repeat it. What is the mainline pilot group (or at least GL personally) prepared to give up in order to hold the line on scope? Negotiations are a give-and-take game, so if scope is no-go, something else must be not a no-go. What is that something(s)?

Who says you have to GIVE UP anything? We are still on a concessionary contract. We only gained back 17% in the joint contract, from a 47% paycut in BK. Now things are absoulutely better financially (thanks bag fees), and there is less wiggle room on the other side to say they need givebacks. How about we go for more money, better retirement, better work rules, and then leave scope the same? We aren't going to go after planes that are already here (76 seaters), we don't own them. (we only own Comair, and that is slowly going away). We won't use capital for things that are already out there. We just won't allow anything more on scope, and go for the big things like pay. High gas is taking care of scope for us. Higher profits means pay raises and work rule changes. Also, as I stated before, there could be an urgency to get this done since more consolidation may be around the corner. That isn't our urgency, that would be the other side who don't want to negotiate during that time.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

It's a big NOPE now...my contention is that it won't remain so. The playing field will change in time.



I'm not actually waiting for anything, but don't see myself ever expending any effort to get hired by another airline.

The playing field may change, but contractually they can't do anything without our OK. If you think the majority of our pilots would ever allow something like giving bigger RJs away, you're already smoking pot. We have seen what has happened with allowing even 70 or 76 seaters, our 100 seaters (737-200s and DC9-30s) are GONE. It's just not going to happen, the history is still fresh in our minds, and that can't be blanked by more money.

And you are a lazy lifer obviously, so continue not to expend any effort. You probably wouldn't pass an interview anyway. ASA was desperate in your case. Maybe you haven't noticed but ASA has lost a lot of Delta planes, and transferred a bunch to the United side. Your airline is NOT growing on the DL side at all, and Gojet thanks you for it. You need to start worrying more about your own lack of scope.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[79%N1]

So why do you, Great Lee, slam on ASA and Comair....but then applaud GoJet who is doing the same thing you so hate....but even worse, by undercutting companies that at least try to fight for fair wages and better working conditions? Makes no damn sense. You talk out of both sides of your a$$.

 

[General Lee]

So why do you, Great Lee, slam on ASA and Comair....but then applaud GoJet who is doing the same thing you so hate....but even worse, by undercutting companies that at least try to fight for fair wages and better working conditions? Makes no damn sense. You talk out of both sides of your a$$.

Our scope limits the number of planes and size of those planes, it doesn't limit who can fly the feed. You guys have zero scope, so the same planes from your fleets that are owned by DL can go to someone else, like GOjets. That is your fault. But, no additional planes were added, just recycling the remaining 70 seaters. When those 50 seaters hit expensive MX, they will most likely be scrapped, which is what has happened at Comair. Good ole Mike Boyd stated AA Eagle will probably dump 100 or so E135s, E140s, and E145s fairly soon because of the burden they cause on the mainline financials. High gas makes them very expensive and inefficient. What you guys need to do is start throwing apps out all over, get some time in something bigger, and then prepare for eventual hiring in a couple years at the Majors.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[RJLoser]

GL's personal idea of scope went from telling regional pilots to "enjoy the 1900" to "well, we'll keep it at 76 seaters." GL is caving on scope already.

GL...insert fourth grade response here......

 

[General Lee]

GL's personal idea of scope went from telling regional pilots to "enjoy the 1900" to "well, we'll keep it at 76 seaters." GL is caving on scope already.

GL...insert fourth grade response here......

Caving on scope? There are LIMITS already, and they haven't been extended, even at the joint contract with NWA. That should mean something to you. As the 50s start to leave, it will be very tight on your 70/76 seaters, because only lifers will be flying them, until they can't anymore. Look at Comair. As the RJs come up to very expensive MX checks, they are usually scrapped. As I said before, good ole Mike Boyd stated that AA Eagle will probably dump 100 smaller RJs (135/140/145s) as soon as they can, which should tell you something. Scope isn't erroding here, gas is just eating the 50 seaters up, and I bet the 70 seaters aren't much better. No 4th grade response needed. Apply to Southern Air or Kallitta ASAP.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[crj567]

Caving on scope? There are LIMITS already, and they haven't been extended, even at the joint contract with NWA. That should mean something to you. As the 50s start to leave, it will be very tight on your 70/76 seaters, because only lifers will be flying them, until they can't anymore. Look at Comair. As the RJs come up to very expensive MX checks, they are usually scrapped. As I said before, good ole Mike Boyd stated that AA Eagle will probably dump 100 smaller RJs (135/140/145s) as soon as they can, which should tell you something. Scope isn't erroding here, gas is just eating the 50 seaters up, and I bet the 70 seaters aren't much better. No 4th grade response needed. Apply to Southern Air or Kallitta ASAP.


Bye Bye--General Lee

After so many posts, and so many years, you really do have to wonder what the hell is wrong with this guy.

Why is it necessary to come here 15,000 times to try and bash regional pilots? What in the world do you think you are accomplishing? Do you see any regional pilots going and bashing the flight instructors or student pilots?

-Really Gen, what the hell is wrong with you?

 

[General Lee]

After so many posts, and so many years, you really do have to wonder what the hell is wrong with this guy.

Why is it necessary to come here 15,000 times to try and bash regional pilots? What in the world do you think you are accomplishing? Do you see any regional pilots going and bashing the flight instructors or student pilots?

-Really Gen, what the hell is wrong with you?

I'm giving advice. Apply to Southern Air or Kallitta now, get on with your lives. Looks like Johnny Knoxville and CaptainV (both Comair guys?) just got on with Atlas with little or no PIC, so I think you guys should consider that too. Many Comair guys thought they would be the RJ powerhouse, and that just isn't the case. So, if you have a chance, throw out some APPs and move on. No bashing, just free advice.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[FishandFly]

General Lee,
I just find it highly amusing and slightly entertaining to see you try to be so mean.

Now, about the lifers. Your whining about them simply shows your lack of understanding how life decisions work.

See, they make less, but don't have to be an FO for what, 10-15 years? They make less, but are home a lot. They make less, but THEY choose to stay.

You chose to move on to Delta. Hopefully you didn't get furloughed like some of the delta guys in my new hire class. Hopefully you made the right choice for you.

Quite frankly I just hope you find peace in life, because having 15,000 posts bitching about this stuff not only makes Delta pilots look bad but shows that you have heavily neglected all the things in life that really matter.

 

[flyboyike]

We just won't allow anything more on scope, and go for the big things like pay.

In other words, you feel this will be a take-and-take situation. You may well be right, but I have a feeling you don't entirely appreciate what sort of an adversary Anderson really is. Keep in mind that this guy managed to de-unionize the entire airline except for the pilot group, and half (at least) of said pilot group never, ever struck. Are you prepared to strike over scope? I imagine you (and a number of people below a certain seniority level) may be, but others may not be. You would all do well to learn a thing or two from the Northwest guys about unionism, but instead many of you chose to sport "Hired, not acquired" bag stickers like you're some superior life form, but I digress...

I have a feeling this is fixing to be an interesting few years, both with respect to scope and a lot of other things.

 

[79%N1]

Our scope limits the number of planes and size of those planes, it doesn't limit who can fly the feed. You guys have zero scope, so the same planes from your fleets that are owned by DL can go to someone else, like GOjets. That is your fault. But, no additional planes were added, just recycling the remaining 70 seaters. When those 50 seaters hit expensive MX, they will most likely be scrapped, which is what has happened at Comair. Good ole Mike Boyd stated AA Eagle will probably dump 100 or so E135s, E140s, and E145s fairly soon because of the burden they cause on the mainline financials. High gas makes them very expensive and inefficient. What you guys need to do is start throwing apps out all over, get some time in something bigger, and then prepare for eventual hiring in a couple years at the Majors.


Bye Bye---General Lee

So you admit that it fills you with glee to specifically see ASA and Comair pilots suffer to downsizing and furloughs, etc while someone like GoJets benefits - as long, of course, as it doesn't affect you???? You sure like to rub their noses in any misfortune, which - of course, is why you are a huge bag of douch!

 

[General Lee]

General Lee,
I just find it highly amusing and slightly entertaining to see you try to be so mean.

Now, about the lifers. Your whining about them simply shows your lack of understanding how life decisions work.

See, they make less, but don't have to be an FO for what, 10-15 years? They make less, but are home a lot. They make less, but THEY choose to stay.

You chose to move on to Delta. Hopefully you didn't get furloughed like some of the delta guys in my new hire class. Hopefully you made the right choice for you.

Quite frankly I just hope you find peace in life, because having 15,000 posts bitching about this stuff not only makes Delta pilots look bad but shows that you have heavily neglected all the things in life that really matter.

I have more than 5000 people behind me, and I have been here for 15 years, and NO, I didn't get furloughed. My airline gives me choices. I can do day turns, 12 day trips, and everything in between. Each fleet has different choices. Some fly mostly domestic, some fly mostly INTL. It's great, and when things are moving (thanks to retirements or expansion), then people skip right over the reserve part, settle in on something they enjoy, and really do enjoy it. You can be home as much or as little as you want. We have a personal drop board that people can pick up or drop anything, and the company can't say anything about it.


I may have 15,000 posts, but I don't represent my airline, I post my opinions. I enjoy my wife, my family, my job, and this board. I am not trying to be mean as you say, rather I am trying to be informative and trying to give some advice. You can take it or leave it.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

In other words, you feel this will be a take-and-take situation. You may well be right, but I have a feeling you don't entirely appreciate what sort of an adversary Anderson really is. Keep in mind that this guy managed to de-unionize the entire airline except for the pilot group, and half (at least) of said pilot group never, ever struck. Are you prepared to strike over scope? I imagine you (and a number of people below a certain seniority level) may be, but others may not be. You would all do well to learn a thing or two from the Northwest guys about unionism, but instead many of you chose to sport "Hired, not acquired" bag stickers like you're some superior life form, but I digress...

I have a feeling this is fixing to be an interesting few years, both with respect to scope and a lot of other things.

I am sure the CEO is a good adversary, but it is contract time, and the airline isn't doing poorly. There are also hints that there could be more consolidation ahead, which actually means getting a contract sooner than later, which wouldn't be bad at all. Somebody knows what the plans are, and they are driving this.

Are we prepared to strike over scope? If it comes to it, I would say yes. We are glad to have the other half who had the fortitude to stand up and do it. That helps us as a group, and tells the other side that the whole group won't fold. How could the company IMPOSE something on us, anyway?

Our merger by the way has gone very well. The "hired, not aquired" stickers are long gone. Ask any FNWA pilot if he is happy now, and I bet he will say yes. There are more bases, more plane types, and they got raises and better work rules, while keeping their frozen pensions if they were senior enough to have them at the time. I fly with them all of the time over to Europe from ATL (they are usually the other FO, but even some FNWA Captains now ATL based). Their commutes are easier, or they have just moved to ATL and now enjoy a less cold lifestyle compared to MSP or DTW.

You may be disappointed when it comes to the LACK of things that change with scope coming up here. Hopefully retirements will start kicking in in a few years and some of you can come on over and enjoy what the rest of us have had for awhile. It really is a lot better, and I hope you get to try it someday.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

So you admit that it fills you with glee to specifically see ASA and Comair pilots suffer to downsizing and furloughs, etc while someone like GoJets benefits - as long, of course, as it doesn't affect you???? You sure like to rub their noses in any misfortune, which - of course, is why you are a huge bag of douch!

ASA guys really haven't had to suffer as much, a lot of the planes just transferred over to the United side, and then you merged with Expressjet. There could be some commuting issues, but that has happened at a lot of airlines (including the Majors just after 9-11), and is a part of the job. If you have to commute, I hope it is an easy one. I would suggest throwing your app in at Southern Air or Atlas and get some widebody time, and then apply at a Major when things start moving due to retirements if you want.


As far as Comair goes, well, I haven't been happy with them since their MEC "offered" to help our furloughs IF they gave up their seniority rights at Delta (even though DL owned Comair), AND if the DL MEC allowed them to have more 70 seaters. Not nice!!!!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[On Your Six]

I am sure the CEO is a good adversary, but it is contract time, and the airline isn't doing poorly. There are also hints that there could be more consolidation ahead, which actually means getting a contract sooner than later, which wouldn't be bad at all. Somebody knows what the plans are, and they are driving this.

Are we prepared to strike over scope? If it comes to it, I would say yes. We are glad to have the other half who had the fortitude to stand up and do it. That helps us as a group, and tells the other side that the whole group won't fold. How could the company IMPOSE something on us, anyway?

Our merger by the way has gone very well. The "hired, not aquired" stickers are long gone. Ask any FNWA pilot if he is happy now, and I bet he will say yes. There are more bases, more plane types, and they got raises and better work rules, while keeping their frozen pensions if they were senior enough to
have them at the time. I fly with them all of the time over to Europe from ATL (they are usually the other FO, but even some FNWA Captains now ATL based). Their commutes are easier, or they have just moved to ATL and now enjoy a less cold lifestyle compared to MSP or DTW.

You may be disappointed when it comes to the LACK of things that change with scope coming up here. Hopefully retirements will start kicking in in a few years and some of you can come on over and enjoy what the rest of us have had for awhile. It really is a lot better, and I hope you get to try it someday.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Lee,

You're right, I haven't heard anyone I've flown with say anything about giving up scope, or any major complaining about the merger. Some people can't accept the fact that our merger went well and things are continuing to get better.


Godspeed!



OYS

 

[flyboyike]

I am sure the CEO is a good adversary, but it is contract time, and the airline isn't doing poorly. There are also hints that there could be more consolidation ahead, which actually means getting a contract sooner than later, which wouldn't be bad at all. Somebody knows what the plans are, and they are driving this.

That's a key statement right there, and I rather doubt that "somebody" is the pilot group (at DL or anywhere else). "Somebody", however, has been able to almost entirely rid the airline of organized labor ("during contract time, when the airline is doing well", no less), and isn't the timing of the DPA campaign (although I don't know how much steam it's getting) also a little interesting?

Personally, I find what people say all but irrelevant, what people actually do is far more indicative.

 

[crj567]

Lee,

You're right, I haven't heard anyone I've flown with say anything about giving up scope, or any major complaining about the merger. Some people can't accept the fact that our merger went well and things are continuing to get better.


Godspeed!



OYS

Almost 15,500 posts and this jackass is still replying to himself via his alter ego.
-Pathetic.

 

[Freebrd]

yeah I hope this PUTZ realizes how ignorant she sounds responding to herself, surely she doesn't think people believe that this is two separate clowns spewing the same crap over and over, what a PUTZ!

 

[General Lee]

That's a key statement right there, and I rather doubt that "somebody" is the pilot group (at DL or anywhere else). "Somebody", however, has been able to almost entirely rid the airline of organized labor ("during contract time, when the airline is doing well", no less), and isn't the timing of the DPA campaign (although I don't know how much steam it's getting) also a little interesting?

Personally, I find what people say all but irrelevant, what people actually do is far more indicative.

We all know more things are coming up, this whole industry seems to be in the consolidation mode right now. That, is GOOD to know. Some might call that leverage. As far as getting rid of organized labor(pilots will always stay organized, but the FAs and Mechanics voted out their unions) that also is good for us, labor groups without unions often get less or the company doesn't have to spend more. (same thing) The DPA campaign is also great, because the 4000 guys who have so far signed up for it have put extra pressure on ALPA to get a better contract and to not "settle." At the same time, the company likes ALPA now, because they have taken away the adversarial component, which makes them happy. (very quick SOC, very cooperative with regards to recent TAs, etc) I believe the company wants ALPA to stick around, and not let in a "militant" new union. So, that means a bit extra pressure on BOTH the company and ALPA to give a little bit more, or risk possible strife down the road. The company and ALPA are currently in quazi negotiations right now, it seems we are getting TAs in our benefit about every month now, and they may be doing a lot of the grunt work first, and then when it gets closer to ammendable time the tough stuff. But, they do seem to be already doing it, which does mean something. They are DOING something, not just saying it as you say.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Lee,

You're right, I haven't heard anyone I've flown with say anything about giving up scope, or any major complaining about the merger. Some people can't accept the fact that our merger went well and things are continuing to get better.


Godspeed!



OYS

Same down here in ATL Six.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

yeah I hope this PUTZ realizes how ignorant she sounds responding to herself, surely she doesn't think people believe that this is two separate clowns spewing the same crap over and over, what a PUTZ!

Riiiight. Two seperate pilots can't have the SAME feelings about RJs and you two goofs. Go back to your shanti in Hanoi and eat some rice bowls. Your next flight to Da Nang leaves in 5 hours......idiot.

Why doesn't CRJ567 join you? You guys can snuggle and then hitch a ride to the airport to do your next empty flight to Ho Chi Min. (dorks!)



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Freebrd]

Riiiight. Two seperate pilots can't have the SAME feelings about RJs Bye Bye---General Lee

My god do you realize how stupid and ignorant you sound!

Bye bye and Godspeed PUTZ!

 

[Flyer1015]

Lee,

You're right, I haven't heard anyone I've flown with say anything about giving up scope, or any major complaining about the merger. Some people can't accept the fact that our merger went well and things are continuing to get better.


Godspeed!



OYS

LOL! Conversations with yourself! Get yourself checked, I don't think that's normal.

 

[General Lee]

My god do you realize how stupid and ignorant you sound!

Bye bye and Godspeed PUTZ!

No, you're the idiot. MANY people feel the same way I do, and it looks like another person articulates it like I do. It's like he's my brother from another mother....... You are 1015's sister. Enjoy the Mekong Delta.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

LOL! Conversations with yourself! Get yourself checked, I don't think that's normal.

What's not normal is busting 5 Middle Eastern Airline interviews in one weekend! How could you do that? Cheese and Rice you are terrible.


Bye Bye---General Lee