50 seat Jets. Uncertain future?

[On Your Six]

Maybe, I personally wouldn't bet money on Delta Pilots flying Q400s or ATRs anytime soon, be good for us regional guys who want to move on if they did though.

Maybe, maybe not. A good way to do that is to have one list, or as AA suggested all mainline above 50 seats. I see no problem with adding DCI pilots to the bottom of our list.


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Nothing wrong with Spirit. They are making money and growing, which says a lot in todays industry. And stop blaming others. Fact still remains that in the 90s it was YOUR pilot group that sold out scope and got the RJ situation to where it is today.

I saw it happen at UAL too, but now we want it to stop. Is that wrong?


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[Freebrd]

Ta da! Told ya she'd be along shortly! PUTZ!

 

[Flyer1015]

Maybe, maybe not. A good way to do that is to have one list, or as AA suggested all mainline above 50 seats. I see no problem with adding DCI pilots to the bottom of our list.


Godspeed!


OYS

How about relative integration? I think a 25 year ASA pilot should get 25 yrs at Delta, and be a 777 Captain.

 

[Flyer1015]

Cue General Lee = OYS head explosion in 3......... 2.......... 1.................................

 

[TDK90]

Maybe, maybe not. A good way to do that is to have one list, or as AA suggested all mainline above 50 seats. I see no problem with adding DCI pilots to the bottom of our list.


Godspeed!


OYS

How do you think that might play out? ALPA carriers by seniority, followed by other union then non-union (SkyWest)?

 

[General Lee]

How about relative integration? I think a 25 year ASA pilot should get 25 yrs at Delta, and be a 777 Captain.

What's funny is that many at ASA actually thought that after Delta bought them. I saw a guy on our jumpseat that was a senior Captain there and he told us (our 727 crew) that he was senior enough to hold the MD11 FO at Delta. (we had them at the time) We all laughed, and it never happened.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Nothing wrong with Spirit. They are making money and growing, which says a lot in todays industry. And stop blaming others. Fact still remains that in the 90s it was YOUR pilot group that sold out scope and got the RJ situation to where it is today.

It's alright I guess, better than your current situation no doubt. Growing? Sorta, and those orders are probably a carrot to get a bigger carrier to buy them. I do admit that right around when I was hired ('96) there was a push for more pay and not a lot of thought back then about RJs. Then the past management thought they could be a gold mine, and our current guys (like in the article) admit they AREN'T. They now are very inefficient, and they are all destined to go to the boneyard. When they come up for major MX, they probably will get parked for good. Comair's older CRJs are all going away, those MX checks are just not worth it apparently. You need to accept that fact.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Freebrd]

same old tune outa JennyLeighs mouth, gonna be fun when they cave again, and those 100 seaters are sporting " operated by express jet"

 

[Spicepilots]

Some people can't handle the obvious truth. The Comair guys thought THEY were the ones saving Delta. The problem is that many regional pilots got comfortable at their airlines after 9-11, taking their eyes off of the normal goal of climbing the ladder, and instead stopping halfway and demanding bigger planes half of the way up. Keep climbing guys, and reach for the stars!


Godspeed!


OYS

Wow. Really? Kinda hard to keep your eye on the mainline "prize" when you suffer years of mainline furloughs. Then the same b-tards that took part in selling out scope for bigger paychecks decide they deserve another five years at the top, leaving us all stranded in regional purgatory. Don't strain any muscles patting yourself on the back for climbing the ladder while us RJ pukes "get comfortable" trying to live out our daily lives on your B-scale.

 

[higney85]

You obviously don't know that executive. He is incharge of Network Planning. He decides where plane go, on which route. He doesn't like RJs as much now. That aint good. The previous President was Fred Greed, (who then left to start Virgin America, but was then run out because he wasn't an American Citizen) and he loved RJs. He said "Businessmen want FREQUENCY." That has turned out to be wrong, they want comfort, a place to work if they have to during the flights, and more room." We used to have CR7s flying SNA to DFW and onto DCA. That was crazy, but that was during the time Fred Greed was there, and he ordered a lot of RJs for ASA and Comair at the time. Did he ever order any for Virgin America? Nope, he learned his lesson. Now the current execs have to clean up that mess. Throw in high oil prices, and it really doesn't help the situation.


Got it yet 1015? Go enjoy Hibbing.



Bye Bye---General Lee

See.. This is where you screwed up. There are some on here that happen to deal with the marketing dept. @ mainline. You have not talked with them (radiant in your post) ; there are plenty of cities that mainline "needs" short term and with random frequency to be profitable and others that are just "off" of the overall hub pushes, yet still profitable. What "was" 50 seat flying WILL go away, cause 70 seat is more lucrative.

Problem is, most can't jump backwards & through hoops. DL's answer? The good ole "C-ya".

I stood back and watched for a while with plenty of laughs, but here, you are wrong in your viewpoint of how DL marketing works with DCI.

50 Seats will go, but only as a yield to 50+ seats. Attack me all you want, but scope will loosen. I hope to fly boxes myself, but it is what it is for the pax side. A "no furlough, 3% raise, keep section 28", will suffice. If you say "NO", you age yourself.

Cheers.

 

[79%N1]

The 50 seater may disappear, what what's to say a new plane won't replace it? Could be a prop, could be a new regional plane. Maybe a 60 seater. It's under the scope, can carry 10 more paying customers and could be 50 coach and 10 first class. Maybe someone builds a new, more fuel efficient regional aircraft.
. Who knows.

 

[General Lee]

See.. This is where you screwed up. There are some on here that happen to deal with the marketing dept. @ mainline. You have not talked with them (radiant in your post) ; there are plenty of cities that mainline "needs" short term and with random frequency to be profitable and others that are just "off" of the overall hub pushes, yet still profitable. What "was" 50 seat flying WILL go away, cause 70 seat is more lucrative.

Problem is, most can't jump backwards & through hoops. DL's answer? The good ole "C-ya".

I stood back and watched for a while with plenty of laughs, but here, you are wrong in your viewpoint of how DL marketing works with DCI.

50 Seats will go, but only as a yield to 50+ seats. Attack me all you want, but scope will loosen. I hope to fly boxes myself, but it is what it is for the pax side. A "no furlough, 3% raise, keep section 28", will suffice. If you say "NO", you age yourself.

Cheers.

No, it just won't. Scope is up to the union contract. Even after BK and 9-11, 76 seat scope stood. Then came the joint contract with NWA, and it didn't budge. Now profits are all over the place, and the pilots that remain after the "lost decade" remember all too well what RJs did to this industry. Even for a large large raise, Scope will not erode to Comair or PNCL flying 100 seaters for Delta. It just won't. Keep dreaming. If you had actually read this article I posted, you would have seen that more mainline planes are coming in and replacing a lot of the once regional only feed (like ATL to DSM and GRR), and Delta dumping 50 seaters and Saabs shows they are serious. Some of those Northern Minnesota cities will continue to have some service, (on remaining 50 seaters as long as they are around), and others will lose it. You have to pay to play, and money losing routes will go away, just like they do at mainline. This aint Amtrak. Cheers.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

The 50 seater may disappear, what what's to say a new plane won't replace it? Could be a prop, could be a new regional plane. Maybe a 60 seater. It's under the scope, can carry 10 more paying customers and could be 50 coach and 10 first class. Maybe someone builds a new, more fuel efficient regional aircraft.
. Who knows.

Scope is being addressed as we speak. Larger props also take away routes from smaller mainline jets (like DC9s or A319s), and there should be limits on them too. ALPA is aware, and so is the independent union that is currently having a "union drive", which helps to pressure ALPA into doing the "right thing" or risk losing millions in dues. Regardless, SCOPE is an important topic, and a BK won't force anything this time.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[flyboyike]

Even for a large large raise, Scope will not erode to Comair or PNCL flying 100 seaters for Delta. It just won't. Keep dreaming.

I hope you're right, but history tells me otherwise. There isn't much that a pay raise (especially a "large" one) hasn't been able to accomplish in this industry.

 

[Medeco]

Wow, this place is like a Soap Opera. Miss a few weeks or days and you will miss nothing.

GL posting the same crap that is likely to happen in time, which 99% know is coming and throw out the token "I hope it works out for most".

15,000 post and most of them have the same boring theme.

You get the award for biggest Delta Geek Tard. Get a Life...

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Scope is being addressed as we speak. Larger props also take away routes from smaller mainline jets (like DC9s or A319s), and there should be limits on them too. ALPA is aware, and so is the independent union that is currently having a "union drive", which helps to pressure ALPA into doing the "right thing" or risk losing millions in dues. Regardless, SCOPE is an important topic, and a BK won't force anything this time.


Bye Bye---General Lee

GL, taking your comments on face value (as if you're not just here to flame the RJ pilots), where's our leverage to take back all scope (even props!) AND to staple or flow all the DCI pilots? What makes you think we have the company over a barrel with oil pushing $100 again and consumer demand dropping, a D-South pilot group that has never stricken in the history of the airline, and an NMB that would never release one anyhow?

We will hold the line at 76, but we're not taking anything back. Quit fooling yourself. 50 seaters will be retired when their contracts expire, and the cities they fly to will be dropped altogether. Regional pilots will lose jobs, and in case you've noticed, many of them won't be hired here. It's starting to appear like DAL isn't interested in the ones who have been there 10+. They want the young, impressionable pilots who will stay for 40 years. Think there's no solution to the hiring boom other than taking all the regional pilots? Don't worry, the legacy carriers will very soon negotiate direct entry programs with the flight schools and bypass the "older disgruntled regional lifers" altogether.

Of course, you know all of this GL. Which is why you keep posting your flamebait here, and gloating about regional pilots losing their jobs. So sad. Especially since you don't even really work here and have nothing to brag about.

 

[flyboyike]

Think there's no solution to the hiring boom other than taking all the regional pilots?

I doubt there will even be a "hiring boom". It's much easier to park more airframes and cut more services than actually try to properly staff an airline (mainline, regional or otherwise). People will buy whatever tickets are available and if there is little enough capacity left, then maybe prices can be (gasp!) increased.

 

[JumpersAway]

What is uncertain about the 50 seat jet? It seems to me that it is certain they will be tossed to the desert in a few years. It isn't going to matter anyway- age 65 will create enough attrition to make this painless for the regional pilots that would have gotten hammered by their shrinking airline anyway.

I think one of these articles comes to light every few months, and always say the same thing. This has been discussed for the last 4or more years, and nothing has changed, regional wise, to any great extent.

 

[sinkrate]

Those larger props actually take up too much room on the ramp, taking a gate away from a jet that could make even more money. I think CAL and UAL pilots now have seen how Colgan Dah-8-400s have taken the place of CAL 737-500s in the NE, and I know we have noticed that too. I have talked to my DTW reps and they are aware, and the new upcoming contract will hopefully tighten all scope, including large props, unless they are flown at mainline. Take it or leave it!


Godspeed!


OYS

Emirates just announced an order for 50 777's, Delta announced reductions in international service and you're bickering over a handfull of narrowbody jobs? The regional pilots you put on the street are going take your wide body jobs. As Box Office pointed out, Delta has stated clearly they aren't going to take a large number of regional pilots. Do you expect them just to pack up and go home? Enjoy beating feet from ATL to BHM five times a day in your MD while those same 'regional' pilots are in a 777.

The smallest size of airline AC has always been determined by fuel prices and fuel prices alone. When fuel is cheap - they get small. When fuel is expensive they get big. That goes back to 19 seat DC-3's in the 50's and 60's. The fuel crises of the 70's happened and they disappeared. Fuel got cheap again in the 80's and 19 seat AC came back in numbers. Fuel is expensive again and the 19 and 34 seat AC are gone. If it stays where it is 50 seat AC will largely disappear. No surprise there. The only effect labor has ever had on that equation is reducing the competitiveness of their employer.